157: A New Way to Approach Sales Funnels with Danielle Klemm
When I hear "sales funnel," there's sometimes a reflexive internal cringe. We've all seen examples of funnels that are more focused on making money than genuinely serving the client. I've also been on the purchasing side of that, and it's not a pleasant feeling.
Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Android Devices | Stitcher | RSS
When I hear “sales funnel,” there’s sometimes a reflexive internal cringe. We've all seen examples of funnels that are more focused on making money than genuinely serving the client. I’ve also been on the purchasing side of that, and it's not a pleasant feeling.
Today’s guest, Innovative Sales Message and Funnel Energetics Coach Danielle Klemm, is different. She's about helping you create ethical and intentional funnels that prioritize clients' needs. Danielle has over five years of experience in online marketing, helping entrepreneurs scale their one-to-many or group offer sustainably and gross manipulation tactic-free. She’s on a mission to make ease, freedom, and play not just the goal but felt throughout the process.
In our conversation, Danielle shared fantastic insights into how you can create a funnel that truly supports your potential clients as they engage with you and your business. In a world where so many online businesses are vying for our attention, being client-centered helps you stand out from the crowd and nurture relationships that last for the long term. Danielle has so much wisdom to share, and I know you’ll love this episode.
- Danielle’s entrepreneurial journey and how she came to be helping people build aligned sales funnels
- Looking at your sales funnel from the lens of a lifetime buyer
- What is a sales funnel?
- Why we need a deep understanding of our people to build a successful funnel
- The type of coach who may not benefit from a typical sales funnel
- What you need to know before you set up your first funnel
- How to build your first funnel intentionally
- Danielle’s approach to testing and repurposing your funnel content
- Creating your funnel to be an experience for your prospective clients
- Getting objective data on the emotional aspect of your client’s experience
- Danielle Klemm on Instagram
- Danielle Klemm’s Website
- Danielle Klemm’s Podcast | The Online Presence Podcast
- Coach with Clarity Collective
- Coach with Clarity Podcast Facebook Group
- Connect with Me on Instagram
- Email Me: firstname.lastname@example.org
Now it’s time for you to show the world what it means to be a Coach with Clarity! Screenshot this episode and tag me on Instagram @coachwithclarity and let me know what you’re more excited to explore in future podcast episodes!
* * * * * *
Grow Your Coaching Practice! Go from idea to income in 90 days or less with the free Coach with Clarity Business Blueprint!
Want to connect further? Follow me on Instagram and continue the discussion in the Coach with Clarity Facebook group.
Want to work together? Become a Coach with Clarity Member today!
Well, hello, my friend. Welcome to the Coach with Clarity podcast. My name is Lee Chaix McDonough, I'm your host, and today I am delighted to introduce you to my friend and colleague, Danielle Klemm. I've known Danielle for several years, in fact, she was there for me the very first time I ever ran Facebook ads for my business. So that's the context in which I was introduced to her. But over the years, she has really expanded her vision and her business to go beyond Facebook ads and really to look at the entire process or funnel that supports a client as they get to know you, get to like you and ultimately get to trust you. And she does that through sales funnels. Now, I'll be honest with you, when I hear the term sales funnel, sometimes I have a bit of an internal cringe, because I think about some of the less ideal ways we've seen sales funnels used in the online space, where it's very much about let's be honest, a money grab, and they don't feel client centered or client focused at all. I know I have been the client in that situation, I talk a little bit about that in our conversation today, and it doesn't feel good. And it's certainly not an experience I would want to create for one of my potential clients. And I know as a listener of the Coach with Clarity podcast, that's not how you want your clients to feel either. And that's why I wanted to bring Danielle on the show because she's not about that either. She is very much about creating ethical, intentional funnels that support your prospective client as they engage with you and your business. She has so much wisdom to share in this episode, we talked about what funnels are, we talk about if you even need a sales funnel in your business, and spoiler alert, there are some of you who may not need them, and we'll talk about who you are and why you don't need them. But you might be someone who needs or wants one and we'll talk about how to go about building that out as well. We cover so much in this conversation. I know you are going to love it. So let's get right into it. Here's my conversation with sales funnel expert, Danielle Klemm.
* * * * * * *
Lee: Well, hello, Danielle. Thank you so much for joining me on the Coach With Clarity podcast today.
Danielle: Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to chat about this. I think it's going to be a really important conversation.
Lee: I do too. I've been looking forward to this, actually. But before we dive into all the good stuff, let's get a lay of the land. I'd love to just start by learning a little bit more about you and the work you do for the world.
Danielle: Yeah. So for those who might not know, I actually worked with Lee a few years ago in my semi-past life when I was doing Facebook and Instagram ads. And it actually was the crux to why I do what I do now, where I've been in the online space for about five years. And I kind of have gone everywhere from website design to marketing, all these type of things. And I realized as I was doing things, for example, with ads, what I noticed was that there was this pattern for people, even if they had phenomenal programs, even if they had the ads were set up correctly, there would be times where they weren't getting the results they wanted because their funnel and their message that was on the funnel and the experience their funnel was giving their people wasn't actually what their people needed in order to buy. Which meant people were either signing up or and they come and go subscribers or they wouldn't sign up at all. And they'd have, like, clicks on their ads but not know why. So I shifted to really support people in the process of really defining and creating a funnel and a message on their terms where they're at. Because so often we get taught the rhetoric of let's just slap up a funnel, so that way it's done quickly and we get it up when it's not actually taking into consideration what your people need in the experience of the funnel, but also what you want to bring forth, what the magic you want to bring in, and also the legacy you want to bring, too. I think that should also be a really integral part of the message in your funnel as well.
Lee: This is why I wanted you on the show. I really love your approach to this kind of work, and we're going to dive into it in a minute. But before we do that, I want to dive even deeper into your journey to where you are today. So you alluded to the fact you and I have known each other for years, and you and I had a wonderful working relationship when it came to Facebook ads and Instagram ads and the like, but I'm betting you probably didn't even start there. So, tell me a little bit about the evolution of your business and kind of what brought you to where you are right now.
Danielle: I always answer this or I start this question, trying to figure out how far back should I go?
Lee: Right? It's like well, when I was five!
Danielle: I'll do a quick little synopsis before I go into the more juicy parts, but for a little bit of backstory on me. So my mom and step mom passed away from cancer before I was 17 and they were both very much the people who, my biological mom was a real estate agent, my stepmom was like an AT&T project manager, both powerhouse women. And I think seeing them both pass very young with people who were so passionate and ambitious about what they do, I wanted to be able to do something in the business world that would be able to support more women, being able to have their dreams come true, whatever that is for them. And so that kind of started me. I went through college and I did like the business degree, which heads up, I use nothing from that degree in my business now. But it was able to help me kind of understand that I knew I wasn't going to want to be in a corporation. I knew I wasn't going to want to be kind of like a cog in the wheel. I really wanted to create something not just for myself, but for the legacy of my moms’. And I'll give, I guess a quick what's the word, a quick tease that I'm actually creating a little mini charity Give Back fund in their honor. So portions of certain services will go back to them and they can kind of, the people who bring back to it can then vote on which charities it goes to. So it's going to be a really beautiful little rendition to them.
Lee: Oh, I love that. What a way to honor their legacy too.
Danielle: I've been wanting to for a long time and I think it finally kind of came together to where I can do it in a way that if people have ever tried to create a charity, it is something else. It is very long. So instead of going down that path, I'm kind of seeing it as like a fund that can then be kind of donated to in their honor. So I'm very excited about it and yeah, so part of them kind of going through that and my thought process as I was kind of finishing up college was not wanting to go into corporation. So what do I do at 22-ish, I think it was and at the same time, because when you're trying to figure out your purpose, you either lean on some type of support system or some type of religious thing. For me it was spirituality. I had never heard of things like meditation or tarot cards, whatever it might be. And I found this local crystal shop and they actually needed marketing help because they were good at what they did but people didn't really know of them. And that's kind of a lot of even now who I work with. Where you're really good at what you do, but you're just not really showing up in the way your people need you to. So it's kind of a little bit of forward facing, kind of, oh, this is going to be something that I might do later, but I would have no idea. So it was from there that then I started to get into more of the entrepreneurship realm, helping more people through small things like virtual assistants. And that's when I saw my first ad for website design, and someone was talking about how to have your own website design business. It's like, “Oh, I'll try this out.” And I went through it, and the marketer inside of me went through it. I did a couple of local ones, local websites, and I realized, “Yes, a website is good and all, but it really is a pretty billboard. And the people who I work with who are entrepreneurs, they want leads and sales. So why aren't we designing their website to do that for them versus just make it prettier?” So that kind of made my head first dive into ads, funnels, marketing, everything that I was learning and then applying it. I started to begin working with ads specifically because it was really hitting off around 2017/2018, was able to meet a lot of amazing people who wanted that support. And then from there saw the pattern I mentioned earlier on the funnels and messaging and now primarily help in that way because I believe if you're able to have a true message and funnel that can stand the test of time. When you put ads to it, when you do any marketing to it, it'll be able to have fruits of your labor versus just creating it for the sake of wanting to get one and done with it.
Lee: I think we did go through this period where everyone was creating a low cost offer, everyone was creating a funnel, thinking that they were going to $37 their way into a multimillion dollar business, when that's, for most of us at least, that's not how it works. And not only did I see I actually purchased some of these lower cost offers on funnels. I remember one, it was a $27 offer, and when I downloaded it, it was a two page PDF with no actionable material. And really, it should have been a freebie. And even if it had been a freebie, it wouldn't have been a very good one. And I remember feeling so duped and so angry that I immediately unsubscribed from that person's list. And so to your point of being clear around the messaging as part of the funnel, also the value and ensuring that we're using this as a way to build and nurture relationships, not just as a revenue source, I think is so important. And I really appreciate how you approach this work.
Danielle: Yeah, it's something that I try and use this phrase more often because I think it helps to understand the relationship. I want your message and your funnel to have is I want you to help create more lifetime buyers. And I think that phrase hopefully helps people understand that, yes, it's great to have sales specs. It's great to have the higher months and stuff, but what I'd rather be able to support you with is creating something that will help people to want to stick with you long term, whether that be six months, four months, a year plus, the problem that you solve. But I think looking at it from that lens of a lifetime buyer, if you think about that, it's to some degree like finding your soulmates. You'd want them to have a really amazing experience. You'd want them to be able to feel nurtured and loved and be able to have that welcoming side versus if you're just going for more sales and forget the person behind the wallet you're looking at, you're going to then end up in that fact of people are, and I think we talked about this earlier as well is people are becoming, I think, more aware of the ethics need to be a part need to be like front facing part of everything you do, especially with marketing because that is going to be the first interaction they have with you. And if you're not setting up the marketing, especially inside a funnel, you're allowing them to have a different impression than maybe you even wanted them to experience, too.
Lee: We're going to talk more about ethics in a little bit, for sure, but I realized that perhaps we need to go back to the beginning, a little bit, around this discussion of funnels and sales funnels, because I think, as we've already just kind of explored, people view funnels differently. And what funnel means to one person may be something very different than how you view it or how I view it. So I'm curious if we can maybe just kind of get our bearings and talk about specifically what is a funnel? What are we talking about when we're talking about sales funnels and then kind of branching off of that, why is a funnel something that coaches in particular should be thinking about? So what are your thoughts? Like, let's define funnel.
Danielle: Yeah, so I feel like the word funnel, like you said, it can have a lot of connotation attached to it, depending on what circles you've been in in the online space. So I define a funnel as truly like a curated container that you're taking people through to take an action. So whether the action is a sale, maybe it's just a sign up, whatever it might be, it is an intentional curated space. You're helping people to take the action you are desiring them to take. And I say desiring, not like convincing or manipulating. I don't believe in that.
Lee: Thank you. Thank you.
Danielle: So for me, that's the basis of what it is. Obviously, depending on what type of funnel where you start with it, it might change a little bit of the context, but in core terms, that is what a funnel is.
Lee: I appreciate that because really we're talking about intention. We are building in consent. So, yeah, we're not coercing or convincing people. We're inviting and people are free to accept or decline. And it's really about the journey you are creating for this person so that they know how to enter into your world and your work and then they can decide if you're someone they want to stick with. So that's really what a funnel is. And we do that in a variety of different ways, we'll get to that in a second. But I particularly appreciate how you've defined that. So it's not just about a sale, it's not just about a product. It's about a journey, an experience, and the beginning of a relationship.
Danielle: Yes. And I really believe too, with funnels, like, you can start at any point. You don't have to start with a lead magnet, maybe for you. You start with the podcast as the first, quote unquote part of your funnel and then nurture them further into that. There's so many ways to start this. And that's kind of why I'm such an advocate for when we're talking about funnels, especially with coaching too, that you don't have to abide by the stereotypical copy/paste templates of like lead magnet then sales funnel to then this, because that might actually not be what your people need or even the current gaps you have. That might not be the place for you to start. So I think it's important to realize with funnels, you don't have to start a certain area of it, you just have to have the intention of what you're trying to create with that current funnel you're doing.
Lee: So really focusing on the desired outcome, that desired call to action, and then ensuring the steps of your funnel invite people to move in that direction. So– Go ahead.
Danielle: Oh, I was just going to say yes. And the last thing that I like to make sure I add in here is with a funnel, especially to really understanding the experience that your people are having in the process of buying. Because the one thing that I'm a huge advocate for is we're taught a lot of times when we're talking about market research or data, we're looking at places that kind of give us something, but not really a lot of actual data on what our people need. And something that I'm a huge advocate for is really making sure the funnel you're creating is how your people want to experience it in the buying in that process, more than just a I'm going to do this nurture email to this nurture email because that's kind of what I've been told. Let's break down who your people are at a core soul level and then put that into the funnel and message for that too. So that's my quick little note there.
Lee: Oh, that's so good because now you're personalizing the funnel both for your own business, but also for your people. And so you're figuring out how to blend the needs of both, because certainly as business owners, we need to bring revenue in, we need to have profit. Like, that's how we run our businesses, that's how we live our lives. But we don't want to do that at the expense of the client experience because ultimately that's going to weaken our business. We may get a lot of people in, but if we're not treating them well, once they're in, they're going to leave. So really connecting to their desires and their humanity and really making like, humanity focused funnels.
Danielle: Yes, 100%.
Lee: Love it. Okay, so let's talk about why coaches in particular need to be aware of what funnels are and if and when it is appropriate to incorporate a funnel into their business. What are your thoughts on that?
Danielle: Yeah, so for me, I really believe when it comes to coaching, it depends on what type of service you're offering, because with coaching, you can do one to one, group mastermind. There's so many ways to slice coaching. So for me, when I think about funnels, I actually, to most people, will not recommend doing a funnel for a one to one service or a one to one coaching part, not because you might have some benefit from it. But the way I see funnels specifically, and even with ads, too, there's kind of a phrase where ads and funnels are meant for quantity versus one to ones are for quality. So you might try and get in a stable of horses with your funnel, but you're looking for unicorns with your one to one. Your unicorns don't really need to go through a funnel. So that's kind of how I look at it when it comes to separating based off of offers. So if you're in the place right now where your primary focus is one to one coaching and services, my recommendation is, if you still want to create some type of funnel from there, I would look at it mostly as, what kind of content are you currently creating? What's the objections or people have? And just creating a very simple, nurture based couple emails and let that be sufficed enough for your one to one. When you really get into like, the juice comes into the group program and the mastermind, the courses type of side, where you actually need more people to go through certain things versus that one to one. So that's kind of like the bare minimum of how I see it for coaching.
Lee: All right, I really want to emphasize this point. I think it's important because a lot of coaches specialize in one on one coaching and that's all they want to do. One on one coaching is their special sauce. And so what I'm hearing you say is at least in terms of, like, a sales funnel that may not be indicated for a coach who is exclusively or primarily one on one coaching, it doesn't mean you don't have a content oriented funnel. But in terms of these $27/$37 offers or other types of sales funnels, that may not be the best fit for a coach who focuses on one on one or even partner coaching.
Danielle: Yes, and I will mention this because I think you would agree with it, too. Almost all of my one to one clients, along with my clients who do offer one to ones, none of them have ever bought a low ticket offering from me. Maybe they might have done, like one or two earlier, earlier on, but they usually one to one clients are very focused on what they know they need. So they're going to book the call when they're ready to book the call, they're going to be able to do this. They don't normally need too many levers to be pulled for them to be ready. It's just making sure your message is talking to those people in the content based funnel you do. So that's kind of why what I do is like funnel but also messaging, because I think it's important to make sure that we're not just designing a layout of a funnel that's good for you, but the core message of it is going to be for your people, too. So that's kind of my two cents on how I see it for one to ones, it's not like you can't do anything for it, but don't believe you need to have an entire fleshed out, multi step thing for it.
Lee: You've got me sitting here thinking about, wow, have any of my one on one clients come through? Like my quiz funnel, for example, I'm going to have to go back and look. I think you're right, though. I think the answer is probably no. It's possible. Now, I do have some people that I work with one on one, who have been in other programs of mine and then moved into one on one. But it wasn't like they went straight from quiz to one on one. There were other pathways that they had to go through first. So I think that's such an interesting point around funnels. And so essentially what we're saying, if you are a one on one coach and you want to stay a one on one coach and that is working for you, then maybe release any shoulds or supposed to’s around having to have a sales funnel. Because what I'm hearing from you, Danielle, is that's not the case. It can be a nurture funnel, it can be a content funnel, but a sales funnel, maybe that's not for you.
Danielle: I would agree. And I think if I were going into it with the one to one coaching or service side, especially, like really doing the nurture side and nurture it from a space of knowing the objections they might have, what's holding them up, and just creating content both for your actual organic content and then repurpose that into be the nurture content for the emails. And let that be it for now, because I think you can always build upon as you talk to more of your clients through one to one, you'll get even more context from them and content to use. But if you're wanting to just kind of have a place to have them kind of be warmed up, you can use that. But like we mentioned here, if you were to look back at all the one to one coaching clients you've had, there's a good chance that a lot of them either have never bought a low ticket program for you. Maybe they did like you said before, like a different program and upsold. Maybe they were in a quiz funnel, but that wasn't the exact way they bought because one to one clients are kind of in a beautiful way, unpredictable. They usually come from a podcast they listened to of yours. Or maybe they're in it for a while and then booked randomly. I think trying to diagnose a specific starting point for those people isn't supportive. So that's why I recommend doing it for more of like a program or course or a mastermind instead.
Lee : That makes so much sense. All right, so we've spoken to our coaches who specialize in one on one. I'd love to talk to what the coach who wants to build out a program should be thinking about when it comes to building out a funnel. So maybe, maybe it's their first small group program, maybe not. Maybe it's more of a membership. But there is this larger container that they'd like to direct their people to. So when we think about that and we think about creating a funnel, what do you feel like are some must haves or must includes? Or perhaps I'm making an assumption here, maybe there are no must haves or include. But I'm curious, kind of like how you start conceptualizing a funnel for a coach who is interested in bringing people into their group spaces.
Danielle: So I would say first things first is like making sure that, hiccups, I get that when I talk fast. I would say first things first is really understanding that have you sold this program before? Is it your first time selling it? Because I think you need to make sure that you've sold this program, I would say at least once before you set up an entire funnel for it because you're going to be able to have so much data to go off of, from selling it, from posts you write, from emails, from talking to people. I would say at bare minimum, you should be selling that thing once at minimum before you do a funnel. And it's not that I don't believe you can't, but you're going to have to. If you create a funnel before you design or launching a program, you are most likely going to go back in there and redo almost all of what you did because the data you now got from the launch or the post that you wrote for it are going to be indicative of what to change. So I like to make it easier for the person and say, let's not create too quickly. Let's actually use a launch style promotion period and let's start testing what your people really respond to first. So I'm a huge advocate of using the content you have or using the current platforms you're going for. Let's use that to test what the content types and the things that they're really resonating with and then use that data to then build a better funnel from there. And then knowing where to start with that funnel depends on, obviously, what you need at the moment. But I'm a huge advocate for really testing with what you currently have versus starting with nothing and wanting to create an entire funnel from there. So that's my two cents, and I would say for most of you who are listening to this, especially, is you want these funnels to work for a long time most likely. That's not going to happen if you don't look at your data or know what's going on with the posts or emails or conversations you've had, because that's going to be the answer to the questions you have around how to create a sustaining funnel.
Lee: I could not agree with you more. Let me just say I'm a huge proponent of running small initial programs or a beta round of something, because that is where you get to test things out and see what works and see what your audience responds to or doesn't respond to. And then you can continue to iterate and grow and create an experience that's really good for your people. And so what I'm hearing you say is, yes, do that and the funnel kind of comes maybe after that first round or after the first couple of rounds when you've got the data and the experience and the testimonials and all that good stuff to kind of back up your hypothesis that this is something that a funnel could lead to and result in a successful outcome for everyone.
Danielle: I agree. And I would say that you can still, after your first launch, begin to start to automate maybe like the one or two best performing emails that you had, put that into a sequence. And that way you have that there for people to go through for the next launch. And then you begin to build a rough draft of your best performing stuff, and then you'll kind of be at a place where you would be willing to look at, “Okay, what can we build that's more solid of a flow for your people?” Just because I think sometimes people jump into it too quickly where they want to create the webinar so that way they have people come into it, which I'm going to be honest, a lot of times now, webinars, especially evergreen webinars, aren't performing as great as they did a couple of years ago. And that's why knowing your people and knowing what they actually need to experience is so much more important than just trying to get something up that you want to have just for the sake of more sales. So that's really how I like to approach the funnel side of it and really understand what you have, the data we look at. And then from there, what's the next step for you to create? What is truly the next step to help fill the major profit gap you might have? Maybe that is for you. You've been doing a lot of sales content, but you haven't done a lot of nurture content. Let's start there first. Maybe you've been great at one to one calls and you've been doing a lot of live calls, but you haven't done a lot of workshop or challenges that your people might need. That's kind of what I believe to start with when we're building a funnel for a program that we want to have for a long time, which means we have to build it really intentionally.
Lee : I also love too that you've kind of addressed the fact that you can repurpose content and material over time. Can you speak a little bit more to that?
Danielle: It is one of my favorite things to talk about because I think sometimes we think that we have to leave only things that are in the funnel for things that they're going to experience once and it's going to be a first time to experience it and it's going to be great in this seven email sequence, whatever it might be. And for me, I actually believe that I would rather have the emails inside of there be tested in real life, whether it be through an action of a testing framework for this reason of like, maybe we need to test certain names. Will A/B test with an email subject headline to see what's going to work out? Well here, let's use a podcast episode to see what gets the most listens, do a series for it. I think you can use, and you should be using a lot of the content you are creating and you can still create with intentionality versus kind of going into it as this place of let's put it in this small dark corner of a funnel where they only get to experience if they dive into it. When in reality think about how many times you maybe have seen a post or podcast once and forgot about it six months later. That's why I'm not super worried about people using it for their funnel because there's a good chance people aren't going to remember, one, the topic that you went over, and two, you're probably going to elevate it in this repurposed way that's going to be fleshed out more with more storytelling or more like numbers. So really allow yourself to begin to see your marketing and funnels as an ecosystem. It's meant to work together, not to be so separate, where they have to only be in this one hallway kind of content.
Lee: I really like that approach, and I have to remind myself, too, that odds are I am the only person on the planet who has ever read all of my emails. Right? And we know, too, that we need multiple exposures to content and ideas for them to really sink in. So the idea of repurposing content, even repurposing an email, you're allowed to do that and actually it could wind up serving your client. So, yes, it saves you time, but it also gives your client an opportunity to get that message more than once and then it's really going to sink in. So there's one other thing I want to ask you about, and before we hit record, I always like to have little conversations with my guests and we got to talk about some of the highlights we want to hit. And you said something that really hit me hard to the point where I wrote it down, I think verbatim. I think these are your words, but you were talking about when we're creating a funnel. Yes, of course, we want it to support the business. We want it to support the business owner, but at the same time, we never want to lose sight of who is on the other end, the receiving end of that funnel, which is the client. And you are so focused on making that funnel an experience for the client. And I thought that was such a wonderful way to view funnels, is like creating this experience that your would-be, hopefully soon to be, client or customer goes through. And so this experiential funnel process I'm fascinated by, and I'd love to just hear a little bit more about what that means, what that looks like, and how that informs your approach.
Danielle: Yeah, so I am very passionate about the experience side of this because, like you just heard, I think it's important for us to realize that funnels aren't meant to just be like a content hub where we just slap stuff up and be there. To me, the way I see funnels and the way I believe it should have been taught at the beginning of everything, is, if you think about it, a lot of times the funnel is going to be the first introduction to a core container your people have gone to. Like, yes, they might be on your podcast, they might be on your Facebook group, but that's more of a community container. This is more of like a really intentional container of curated content you're creating for them. And I think sometimes people forget that, especially as coaching, especially as coaching, when a lot of what you do is emotional transformation. Your funnel should reflect that because it's the first experience they get from you. So if it's an experience like you just had with that $27 product where it's two pages your now first impression of what experience would be like to work with that person is going to be off. You're not going to enjoy it, you unsubscribe from it. And maybe for some of your people it might not be as visceral, but for a lot of times, we really do in our subconscious mind judge what is being given to us in our first interaction. So it's why I believe the experience is so important when it comes to funnels work, because you need them to not just see you as the expert, but to feel your process. And I said feel you're in a process, not see your process, because that is a different thing entirely. We're so used to telling. We talk about show and tell sometimes where it's like we want to show, not tell. But also I believe you need to experience. And that's why a lot of times I'll talk about the things you need to see, hear and feel in order to say to have that full body yes. Because I believe a good portion of experience comes from emotion. And as coaches, you really help your people to navigate their emotions, to help them to build off their emotions. So why doesn't your funnel also pair with that as well? It should be a beautiful combination rather than two separate pieces.
Lee: I just feel good hearing you describe it that way. I just get this full body yes in part because I think I'm better about it now than I used to be. But certainly I, like many coaches, kind of would hear the word sales and just be like, oh, I don't want to sell. I don't want to be salesy. When in reality, if you're going to have a business, you're going to have to do some sales, folks. That's just how it works. That's how we bring revenue in. But what I'm hearing you say is that within the sales funnel, it is very much about creating a wonderful experience for your clients where they feel nurtured and supported, where they feel what it's like to work with you. And so it takes all of that ick factor out because you're not putting the spotlight on you, the recipient, you're putting the spotlight on the client and really focusing on “What will this journey be like for them? How can I create as beautiful and positive an experience for them so that regardless of whether they say yes or no, they walk away feeling really good about it?” And that's just something that really resonates with me. And I think that's also at the basis of ethical sales and ethical coaching, that we are centering the client experience throughout. Not at our expense, mind you, but we're also ensuring that our bottom line isn't necessarily what's leading here. What's leading here is what the client needs, how we can meet them, where they're at, and how we can create an experience that feels supportive, that honors them. That, to me, is at the root of ethical practice.
Danielle: I would agree, and it's why I believe in taking an approach that is this experiential feel alongside of the data behind doing emails and certain things. Like, one of my favorite things to do when I'm looking at people's content or funnels, whatever it might be, is to do some type of audit, but in a way that's not like auditing, just like, what are your numbers? What I actually do on top of looking at the base stuff of your email, open rates and click through rates, is I actually put on a heat map tool onto your sales page on your website so we can actually start to see how your people are interacting with your message and interacting with your funnel. That's where the experience comes from because we can then see what they're not saying. I think that's why I don't like market research sometimes, because you're asking them questions that even if you do ask them, like, more story based questions, they're telling you what their brain is thinking, but not what they're actually experiencing. The moment of going through your page, in the moment of going through your emails, and that's what that provides. So that's kind of why the approach that I take is emotional, but it also has the data back to make it feel also safe for you. Because I hear the biggest thing all the time with funnels is like, I want to create a profitable funnel. One of that comes from the experience side, and the other part comes from actually being able to see the patterns and themes, the unspoken objections your people have that they're not going to be able to say to you, because they don't know how to explain it. But they're showing you in the way. They're clicking off certain things or they're not saying certain areas. So that's kind of why the experience is not just a traditional linear A to B. Sometimes it really is taking intention behind what you do and letting yourself kind of go down the path of the experimenter rather than just click funnels, copy/paste type thing.
Lee: There's a reason I like you so much, Danielle. There's a lot of reasons I like you so much, Danielle. But one of the reasons is because for me, at the heart of the work that I do, it's the intersection of strategy and intuition. It's how we can take external knowledge and data and blend it with our internal knowing and our values and our vision. And I feel like that's what you just described. Yes, we're looking at data and we're looking at how your audience is responding, and we want to see what's working and what's not. And there's also room for you to show up as your full self as a coach and to honor your intuition and your desires. So the way you approach building out funnels is how I approach coaching. And all the more reason why I am just so happy that you are a guest on the Coach with Clarity podcast and that you will be a future guest expert for the Coach with Clarity Collective. So I'm really looking forward to that. In the meantime, however, I am positive people who are listening to our conversation today are going to want to learn more about you and your work. So where is the best place for people to find you? How can they connect with you?
Danielle: Yeah, so I'm trying to be better about being more consistent on the interwebs but I am on Instagram @DanielleKlemmm with three M’s. Weirdly enough, my name is taken by like a random person, so I have three M’s instead of two. But there's that. I also host the Online Presence podcast which is actually Lee is going to be on upcoming soon as well. It's one of the few things to do with people and websites, danielleklemm.com, I would say if you're wanting to dive into this kind of work but not sure where to begin. I'm actually at this point in time probably about to be closing up a program that is called Perk Up and Purchase for this exact reason because so often we're not really knowing what to look at in our content and what we've done. How can we begin to use that in a way to help create what I call the 1% plan of what to help us to change and change first, to start to build more of that in a more sustainable asset like, Lego block way, rather than just trying to do it all at once.
Lee: I will make sure that we have links to your website, the correct Instagram account, @DanielleKlemmm with three M’s. We'll have links to all of that in the show notes. Danielle, I cannot wait to be on your show. I will definitely share that with my audience when it comes out. But for now, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your time and your wisdom with us today. It's been such a pleasure having you.
Danielle: My pleasure. It's been great and I hope that people are able to get some reassurance around whatever they might be having come to this podcast to hear.
Lee: I have no doubt they have. So thank you again.
What an honor to have Danielle on the show. I so enjoyed our conversation. I hope you did too. There were so many standout messages within the conversation. The ones that are really top of mind for me are how Danielle is devoted to creating an intentional, grounded funnel that really honors the client while also serving the business owner. I know that she believes that a successful funnel is one in which everyone wins and everyone feels good about the interaction. And as a Coach with Clarity, I know that's what you're looking for as well. So certainly the way Danielle approaches this work is consistent with how we approach our coaching work as well. I also really appreciate how Danielle prioritizes legacy and integrity in her work and how she is honoring the memory of her mother and step mother in her work and also in this charitable arm that she's creating. It's really powerful stuff. So please be sure to connect with Danielle again, we will have all of the links you need in the show notes. And if you'd like to learn more from her, then good news if you are a Coach with Clarity Collective member, she is going to be our guest expert for the month of April 2023. So you will get to learn even more about what it looks like to build an integrity based sales funnel for your coaching practice. And if you are not yet a member of the Coach with Clarity Collective, well, it's never too late to join. In fact, I would love to welcome you as our newest member, so just head to coachwithclarity.com/collective to learn more and join and then you too can join us for Danielle's guest expert training. The good news is that our guest expert trainings, our spotlight coaching, and our Q&A calls are all recorded, which means you have unlimited access to every single call we've had since the inception of the program all the way back in 2019. There is so much waiting for you inside the Collective and I view my role as the facilitator of the Collective as being a curator. So if there's a particular topic that you're interested in, or if you need guidance on a specific issue, as a member, all you have to do is reach out, let me know and I can point you in the right direction of a training or a call or a resource inside the vault that can serve you. That way you'll never feel lost. You'll never feel overwhelmed because I am just an email away and ready to direct you to exactly what you need to build your coaching practice. All of that is waiting for you inside the Collective so just head to coachwithclarity.com/collective to learn more and join.
Alright my friend. That is it for me this week. But as always, I will be right back in your podcast feed next week with a brand new episode of the Coach with Clarity podcast. Go ahead and make sure that you are following or subscribed to the show wherever you listen to your podcasts. That way you can be assured that the next episode will be waiting for you in your feed as soon as it's available. So until next time, my name is Lee Chaix McDonough reminding you to get out there and show the world what it means to be a Coach with Clarity.