Lee: Well, hello, Erika! Thank you so, so much for joining me on today's episode of the Coach with Clarity Podcast.

 

Erika: Thank you so much for having me, I’m really excited about this, I love chatting with you.

 

Lee: The feeling is 100% mutual. And that's why I'm so thrilled that you are here today. But before we get into all of the things that we have on deck to talk about, I would love to hear a little bit more about you and the work that you do for the world.

 

Erika: Yeah, so I say that I am a sales strategist for rebels who reject the status quo, but still want to hit their big goals, they want to be well paid, but also well rested. And they don't want to compromise their values in order to get where they want to go. So, I help them create custom sales and marketing plans that can accommodate all of that, and I absolutely freaking love it.

 

Lee: I love that too. And one of the things that I've always loved and respected about you is that you really do lead with your values, it is clear who you are, what you stand for, and how you operate your business, which is just not, it's not only a way to differentiate yourself from everyone else, but it's a way to really build a business that's in integrity, with who you are. And I just think that's outstanding.

 

Erika: Thank you. And and I would say I feel the same about you. And honestly, I, I think that the ripple effect of that is that the people who I get the pleasure of working with, as you know, the clients that I work with, they are just amazing, like, they are so inspiring to me. They are phenomenal humans, and it's just such a delight. And I think it's because they can clearly see my values. They resonate with them. And so it's just, it's a good culture fit from beginning.

 

Lee: I agree 100%, I feel the same way about my clients. And also thank you for that lovely compliment. I'm glad to be counted in your company among integrity based businesses. That means a lot. So before we dive into sales strategy, I would love to just kind of hear a little bit more about your journey. Have you always been doing this kind of work?

 

Erika: Ah, okay. So yes and no. So in terms of loving, selling, yes, like since high school, my first job ever was at a large tuxedo sales and rental chain in Phoenix, Arizona. We were at like the main hub store of theirs. We're very, very busy. I started there when I was 15. We got paid minimum wage and commission. And I was like, I was really great at it. And I didn't even realize at the time like it, it wasn't like “Oh, I'm just great at it because like I want to make a lot more money and I want to make the commission.” It was just it, it felt very natural, it just felt like you know, listening and being responsive to their needs, and then directing them towards what I thought would, you know, solve their problem or you know, make them happy or get them the end result that they wanted. And then I was a barista eleventy million times in my younger years. And then I actually went to college to be a high school English teacher. And I did that for a short time, right after college. And then, much like you, I was a military spouse. And so you know, that life, you move around, and it throws you different curveballs and you end up in doing things that you're like, I never thought I would do this. But it just it works because it serves me in where I'm now at in life. And for me, that meant that when we moved when I got married, and we moved, I didn't have a teaching license in the state we moved to so kind of ended up having these different, like retail, like management type jobs that I was really, really, really good at. And like running the huge Calvin Klein store just north of Seattle and training all the West Coast managers there for years. But that that was totally not my intended path. And then when we PCS’d, again, which is like the fancy, you know, military term, as you know, for moving when we did our final PCS, we ended up in upstate New York. Our son had just turned four and I was like I cannot do this retail management work anymore. Like I was making great money. I was having a lot of success, I could have kept working my way up in that industry. But the hours were just a nightmare paired with a military schedule and no family support nearby. And so I was like, I'm going to do something different. And I ended up managing the sales and marketing for like a large organic vegetable farm in the area, which then led me to farming. And like just all these different paths, I had a very like accidental, but very successful period of time as a leader for a direct sales company. So I was like, in the top 3% of that company. And then at the end of 2016, I was just really burnt out, I was burnt out on that business model I was – I wanted more flexibility. And I was like, at the time, I had been helping a couple of friends with businesses that they had started in 2015. So two separate businesses, and one sold products, one sold services. And literally we would just get together and have lunch. And I would give them sales and marketing strategy. And I started to get curious, like, “Is this actually a thing that people get paid to do? Because I, I absolutely love it.” And I had no idea that yes, in fact it is. And so, in early 2017, I closed my previously successful business. I started this one and I've never, I've never looked back (unintelligible – “but an ache of of my life.” But I was really curious to try it. And I'm so glad I did.

 

Lee: Excellent. Erika, I am going to ask you to turn off your video simply because I'm getting a little bit of drag on my end. It's nothing we won't be able to handle in editing for sure, because I love my podcast editing team. Hi, Alex. Um, but we'll see if that helps a little bit. 

 

Erika: Okay. 

 

Lee: Okay. So I'm just going to pick right back up from where you left off. And we'll dive right in. Erika, what I love about your story is your breadth and your depth of experience, and how all of your previous experiences all the way back to a tuxedo rental place and being a barista, all of that, like when we look back and we connect the dots, it seems almost inevitable that you would wind up doing the kind of work that you're doing now. And yet, I'm sure as you were living those experiences, it didn't necessarily seem like, “This is obviously my next step.”

 

Erika: Oh, gosh, no, in fact, I would say especially for like the first year of being solely in the world of online business, I actually felt really like embarrassed because there were all these people in the online space who were like, you know, I've been here for years and everything. And what I've actually come to realize now is that my offline business experience is actually a huge asset. Because it's almost like, you know, when you have to do something the old fashioned way, like the harder way first, then now I'm like, oh, okay, well, I see how I can replicate this online, and actually leverage the power of an online business. So that I can actually like, use these different tools and platforms to reach more people than I otherwise could if I had an in person business or like a brick and mortar business. So now in hindsight, all of those different experiences, both in sales and in leadership, I'm like, and, you know, just running different types of businesses and different size teams. I'm like, oh, no, these are actually all incredibly valuable skills that I bring to my current business and to the work I do with my clients.

 

Lee: Yes. And so just to refresh, you're really focused on helping, and I love how you put it like rebels who want to reject the status quo when it comes to sales and marketing. And so I'd love to kind of dive in and hear from you. Well, first off, what is this status quo that we're rejecting, like, what is it that we're trying to move away from? And where do you see sales heading for coaches who want to create an integrity based business?

 

Erika: Hmm, okay, great, great questions. So I really view the status quo as the kind of like “business as usual.” So the way that this plays out, I feel like in the online world, it's always evolving, of course, but it's traditionally the, you know, it's like the profit over people model. So I would say in the online space, and thankfully this, I do see it changing. But traditionally, it's been the, you know, just try to make everything scalable and passive and hands off and hire overseas help for like $3 an hour. And, you know, just really, like, try to get this volume of people in and say whatever it is that, like they need to hear, in order to click the Buy Now button. And you know, it's it's, I feel like it's really like taking people for granted and trying to like win at all costs and get there, you know, as quickly as possible and like pay yourself as much as possible while like not doing that for other people on your team and all of that. It's just it feels very, very, like shallow.

 

Lee: Yeah, yeah, 

 

Ericka: Wouldn’t you say? 

 

Lee: Yeah, no, I would. And I think what's coming up for me, it's also this idea that there's like,  a limited source of whatever it is that we want. And so we have to do whatever it takes to get it. Win at all costs, at the expense of the relationship that we're trying to build with our people. 

 

Erika:  Yes, yes, that is a perfect, a perfect way of putting it because I feel like you know, especially when you think about coaches, right, whether it's business coaches, or life coaches, there are so many out there, and I think that it can it in the very, like typical way, you know, the very capitalist way of looking at it, it's like, yes, there's this limited supply, and you are going to have to beat out your competition, to make the sale and, you know, do whatever it takes, and you're going to have to hustle and grind. And, you know, if, like, if you want it bad enough, like you'll do whatever it takes, it's, it's kind of like that mentality, which I feel like is really limiting and also is not like it's it's not regenerative, right, it's very, like extractive it basically makes us feel scared and very, like reactionary all the time in, in our businesses, which eventually, you know, as, as you know, especially with your background, and you know, with mental health and, and counseling, it's like that will wear on a person's psyche, and just grind them down into burnout, even if they're only working 20 hours a week, if you are like, hyper fixated on what you know, on like, your fears, or like what you might miss out on or anything like that, like, like the human body just cannot sustain that level of stress over time.

 

Lee: Yeah, to me, it's almost like trying to wear a pair of shoes that don't fit you quite right. You can make do but over time, you're going to get blisters. And it's going to be sore. And then if you keep doing it, it's going to get even worse, and then all of a sudden, you're left hurting and hobbling. And you're not able to move towards what you want. 

 

Erika: Exactly, exactly. 

 

Lee: So let's talk about the alternative. Like, what's another way to approach sales that doesn't require us to resort to these kind of gross scarcity tactics that well, you and I know are very much rooted in the patriarchy and in keeping a very specific set of people in power.

 

Erika: Yeah, so I find that for people like the people that you and I work with, right, so they're, they're providing a service, and they're, you know, probably not trying to have like 11,000 clients or students, right, like, it's not on volume, right? They need a much smaller amount of clients to work with to actually hit their revenue goals. So when you think about it, that way, it already takes some of the pressure off, because you're not trying to get in front of every single person out there who could be a potential client. And then putting them through these really like complicated funnels and doing these really like elaborate launches or anything like that. It really can come down to thinking about making real connections with people and forming real relationships that you nurture over time. And one thing that I am really passionate about talking about is this idea of like, connection over content. So content is obviously important. I make content like I – you know, I'm all for content. But I think what too often happens in the world of online business, is we obsess over content creation. And then what happens is, is that every time a platform changes, it's like, “Oh my god, I just I feel like I just finally was like getting in a groove and now you know, Instagram is changing the feed view or whatever.” and “What am I going to do now?” and like, you know, “I'm always trying to create content or think about creating content and, and I also need it to convert for me like I need it to do all this heavy lifting.” And again, that is just especially for solo entrepreneurs, or even those that have small teams. That is, again, a lot of mental exhaustion, to have to deal with. Where instead, I like to think about it as: Where are you prioritizing connection first? Like very intentional connection. And then like, content is great. But if people don't know you exist, they can't enjoy your content. So it really should be like, getting in front of new people all of the time, forming real relationships, and then they once they now know about you, then they can look through all your awesome content and see like, oh, is this somebody that I would want to work with? Or is this somebody that I would want to collaborate with, or, you know, refer to somebody who I know – any of those things. And so I think that if people spent, kind of like the 80/20 principle, like, if you flipped it from 80% of the time creating content, or thinking about creating content, and 20% of time actually like connecting with people, if you flip that around, even for 90 days, like legitimately, you will skyrocket your sales.

 

Lee: I love that approach, Erika. And the reason I love it so much, especially for coaches is because coaches are really good at connecting with people. I mean, that's, that's kind of what we do, right? And so then all of a sudden, it's like, wow, maybe I don't have to completely change who I am, or learn entirely new skill sets in order to be successful. Maybe I can rely on my talent of building and nurturing strong connections with the people I want to serve.

 

Erika: Yes, exactly. And I would encourage anyone listening, if you think back, like 6 months, or 12 months, whatever works for you –  write down literally every client that you've worked with, and then trace back to how they like, how you initially connected with them. And usually, you will start to see trends. Like, I can go through everyone in my in my group program, right now, I can trace them back to an actual, like, human relationship that I have with somebody else. Or, like that I met them through, or it was like, we found each other on Instagram and then like, we were chatting on Instagram, and we built up an authentic relationship. And then eventually, they decided that they wanted to work with me. But I can literally go back like it's not a mystery. And that is usually how it is for people who are doing, on a lower scale, a one to one or a one to many, where you’re not trying to like, you know, do something that is at a massive scale, but where you're actually maybe doing like, you know, sales calls, or like an application or something like that for your program. You really don't actually need that many people as as clients to hit those sales goals. And when you leverage relationships, it like helps you maximize the the conversion rates for the people that you actually need.

 

Lee: So we really are talking about leading with connections leading with relationships. And that really is the antithesis of the status quo, where a client or a customer is seen as a number, and it's a numbers game. We're, we're not interested in that. I mean, certainly we want to be measuring our metrics, we want to have a rough idea of, you know, this number of people have signed up, this number of people have converted, like data is important, but it shouldn't override that human connection, because that is really at the heart of what we're doing.

 

Erika: Yeah, and I love how you said like, it's not it's not a numbers game, because I think where a lot of people have felt like they've been burned by a lot of those really large programs, is they get inside and then they feel like just a number or they feel like “Oh, I thought, I thought that this thing was going to be for me,” but actually they forgot to – they omitted the fact that like the people who get the best results first have XYZ in place, right?

 

Lee: Right.

 

Erika: Like, it's like they're just trying to get those huge launch numbers without taking into consideration who is actually going to get the best results, and really honestly speaking to that, even if it means it's going to like caught maybe cost them a few sales. And again, I feel like that “just trying to go for the the numbers” is like, to me it feels very much the like, you know, “white, hetero, patriarchy, capitalism,”, that's just like, “We have to rush, rush, rush and get everything that we can while we can, like as fast as we can.” And then without any, like pondering about like the repercussions of that. 

 

Lee: Yeah, I agree. And you know, as you were speaking, I was thinking about how true what you're saying is with regard to like, these big companies that are trying to scale and everything we hear about more, more, more. But I'm also thinking about six years ago when I started my own business and I was so desperate for a client that I was willing to take anyone and everyone. And for me, it was a numbers game, even though that number was just one. But what that forced me to do was really step outside of who was that I really want to work with? What do I really stand for? Because I put all of that aside in favor of let me just get a client, please. And I'll tell you what, those early clients, I mean, they're great people and I still care very deeply for them. But I was not the right fit for them. They were not the right fit for me, because I allowed a whole different set of criteria to determine who I was going to take on as a client. And that criteria was “they're interested in they're willing to pay me.”

 

Erika: Yes, yes, absolutely. Yeah. And I think that that's, it's something that is good to think about to overtime as you work with people, because, and I'm sure you've seen this in your own work that like, there are people you've worked with where it was, it was good, and they got good results, and you got along well, and it was fine. But then they're the other people you work with were like, “Oh my gosh, if I could just clone this person, like, you know, these, like five people, and it would be like phenomenal.” And then when you really start to think of like, what are the nuanced differences between those people and the other people? Like, for me, I'm always refining that down. And like you said, it doesn't mean that like, it's not like those other people were bad or wrong, or whatever. It's, it's just, I feel like the longer that you do the thing that you do, the better you get at your skill at your craft. And the more you're like, “Oh, what is my actual lane? Like, what is, what am I really, really, really good at, and for whom?” And I think that like, the more you don't judge that, but just view it as part of the process. And then like, be mindful of it and carry it into who you're connecting with. I feel like it just creates more enjoyable, like client relations going forward.

 

Lee: I agree. And I think that is a process that continues to evolve as we're in business. We continue to iterate, you know, 6, 8, 10 years in, we're still refining who it is we want to serve and how we can best serve them. So it's certainly not a one and done thing. It's something that will continue to grow as we're in business. And I love that I'm able to look back at those early experiences with some compassion with a little bit of grace and say, “Yeah, that may not have been the best choice. But at the time, I was doing the best I can and I've sure learned from it. And here's what I'm going to do differently moving forward.”

 

Erika: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think it's cool. You know, we like as an as an online entrepreneur, especially with a smaller business, it's it's nice that we sort of have that ability to make those pivots and adjustments rather easily, like rather quickly versus if we were like, a huge corporation.

 

Lee: Yeah, yeah, we can be more versatile. We can we can adapt quickly. And there's a real, there's real benefit to that. 

 

Erika: Mm hmm. 

 

Lee: So, I do have one more question I want to ask you before we start to wrap up. I know some of actually, I'm thinking about a client in particular, who feels really comfortable with the idea of connecting with people of using content as a means to nurture that and so forth. But then when someone actually expresses interest in working with them when they're like, “Yeah, this sounds great. What do we do next?” That's when they freeze. So it's really when we move into that sales piece where, you know, we need to talk about who we are and what we do that they start to kind of freeze up a bit. What guidance would you have for someone who's experiencing that?

 

Erika: Yeah, so the first thing that I would say is, you know, a lot of times I think that we fear selling because we feel like well, “I don't I don't want to make; I don't want to like burden this person with having to pay me and all of that.” But if we can think about things that we love to spend money on or in the past have loved to spend money on right if there's somebody we've invested in, and it was just phenomenal. Or if there is, you know, a restaurant, that's a splurge but you know, we love to, like, maybe you love to go there. Or you love to spend money on travel, like whatever it is. And I think when we remind ourselves that like, Oh, yeah, when we spend money on stuff that we're excited about, it doesn't feel like a burden, it feels really like, “Wow, I'm so grateful that I have this money, and that I'm going to get this experience!” and all of that. And so that is true for the people who want to spend money with you, as well. And also, just knowing that, you know, the work that you do is valuable, and it gets people great results. And you're giving somebody an opportunity to invest in you and invest in themselves. And as again, as long as they're going back to like those nuanced things, right? As long as you, in your best judgment, where you are right now feel like this person is a right fit, they are poised to get good results from working with me, then you're not doing a disservice by saying, “Okay, here are the next steps.” Now, it could be the case where let's say you have a couple different offers, where you're like, “Okay, well, let me just run a few questions by you, right? Like, what are your goals right now? What do you want to do, you know, like, as it relates to your offers, and your business and the person, all of that. Because that way you can better choose which offer you think that they are a better fit for, right? So you might be like, “Okay, now that I know your answers, I actually think we should do you know, one to one, or we should do the group program, or we should, you know, whatever, whatever the offer is,” and then you can suggest that particular thing to them. Or if you just have a singular offer, then you can just have those next steps ready to go. So whether that is just like a templated email, we're like, “Cool, I'm going to send you this email, it's going to have the payment link, it's going to have the call booking link, whatever, you know, let me know if you have questions. It’ll have like the contract stuff.” Like, you can just have that prepped and ready to go and trust that, like, if they have an issue, they have personal agency, and they have questions like they can bring it up to you. And you can address it then but especially if they're asking it means that they really they want to invest in you. And I also have a free Knowsley sales method. It's very quick. It's very simple. It's an acronym easy to remember. But the two biggest parts of it are the asking good questions, and then really listening and then like leading them to what you think is best for them. And then confidently suggesting it.

 

Lee: Yes, which is still in the spirit of creating and nurturing connection with your people. Because you want them to feel like this is the next best step because you have decided this together. It's not that you're pressuring them. And it's not that you're bullying them. It's that you're really showing up you're listening, you're connecting with who they are and what they want. And then you together are figuring out okay, “This is probably going to be the next best step for you. Are you interested?”

 

Erika: Exactly, exactly. And you're really it's yeah, it's like, rather than like a sales script that is very rigid, and you have to follow, it's really just following the normal cadence of a human like, just a regular human conversation, a non sales conversation where you're just having this natural back and forth where you're sort of you're like, constantly getting buy in from them, and then saying, like, “Okay, based on what I have heard you say, I think that option, whatever is going to be best for you. Let me tell you a little bit about it. And then I would love your thoughts.”

 

Lee: I'm already like taking a deep breath, just thinking about approaching a sales conversation that way. Erika, I have so enjoyed our conversation. And I know that people who are listening in are going to want to connect with you and follow up. What's the best way for them to do that? Where can they find you?

 

Erika: Yeah, so erikatebbens.com is my website and @ErikaTebbensConsulting is where you can find me on Instagram, which is where I hang out on socials. And if you want the No-Sleaze Sales Guide, it's just at bit.ly/nosleazeselling, so you can get that right away. And even like a lot of people I know they'll print it out and keep it on their desk and just have it ready to go for sales conversations as a reminder.

Lee: That sounds like such a valuable resource. We will have links to all of that in the show notes, so be sure to check the show notes page for all of that. And Erika, thank you again for coming on the show. This has been such a blast and I'm really grateful that you have shared your wisdom with me and with the listeners of the Coach with Clarity Podcast. 

 

Erika: Yeah, thank you and one more place and I'm so like, I noticed my bio, but I always forget to mention it for some reason on podcast. But I have like, I have over 100 episodes on my Sell It Sister Podcast, so.

 

Lee: Oh, my God, like how I can't believe I forgot to mention that too. It is such a good show.

 

Erika: Oh, thank you. I like literally, I don't know what it is. I always forget to like, say it as another like resource. But yeah, there's heaps. And if you're like, “I don't even know where to begin!” Just like send me a DM and tell me what you're struggling with and I'll point you to one or two of the episodes and we'll get you in the right direction.

 

Lee: Excellent. Yes, go check out the Sell It Sister Podcast available pretty much wherever you listen to your shows. We'll have links to it in the show notes as well. And again, Erika, thank you so much for being with us today. 

 

Erika: Thank you, Lee.

 

 

So many thanks to Erika for coming on the Coach with Clarity Podcast. You know, after we wrapped, we were talking about how much fun it is to be a podcaster. As Erika mentioned, she has her own show, I have this one. And the magic that we both identified is when we are conducting an interview and time flies. I know that interview was roughly 30 minutes, I have to tell you, it felt like five, we just got in the flow, Everything happened so naturally. And that's what I love most about Erika, she is such a real, genuine, authentic person who believes so strongly in what she is sharing with the world. And when we are talking about sales, I think that is particularly important, because as we alluded to in our conversation, there are some really shady sales practices out there being taught by very well known high visibility entrepreneurs. That is the status quo that Erika is referring to. And that is the status quo that she is rebelling against. And I am right there with her and I have a feeling if you listen to and enjoy this podcast on a regular basis, you probably identify with that too. So definitely head on over to the show notes page. That's where you will find all of the links to Erica's podcast, her Instagram, her website, we've got it all there waiting for you. And if you happen to be a member of the Coach with Clarity Collective, then you are in for a special treat because Erika is this month's guest expert. She will be providing a one hour training on sales and your coaching business exclusively for Collective members. So if you are a part of the Collective, get ready, it's going to be a great training. And if you are not yet a part of the Collective head on over to coachwithclarity.com/collective you will be able to register for the waitlist. And between you and me you definitely want to do that because I often offer special bonuses to people who are on the waitlist, so don't wait, head on over to coachwithclarity.com/collective, hop on the waitlist and I look forward to welcoming you inside the Collective very soon. 

 

I will be back in your podcast feed next week with a brand new episode. So if you are not already subscribing to or following the Coach with Clarity Podcast, be sure to do that now. No matter where you are listening to this podcast. whatever platform you choose, there should be an option to follow or subscribe or like. Do whatever you have to do to ensure that next week's episode shows up automatically in your feed. That way you will never miss an episode of the Coach with Clarity Podcast. So I will be back next week. But until then, my name is Lee Chaix McDonough reminding you to get out there and show the world what it means to be a Coach with Clarity.