Lee: Well, hello, Christi, thank you so much for coming on the Coach with Clarity Podcast today.

 

Christi: Thank you so much for having me. Excited to be here.

 

Lee: I am thrilled to welcome you and we are going to talk all things websites today, which is a question I get asked so often by people in the Coach with Clarity community, and my students and my members. And so I could think of no one better than you to come on the show and give us the 411 on everything we need to know about websites. I can't believe I just said 411, that is like, I’m really dating myself. I'm not sure anyone under 35 is even gonna know —

 

Christi: I’m like, does anyone know what that means? 

 

Lee: They might not. They might not. I think – I think I need to come up with a better phrase than that. But, let's go ahead and give them the information all about you and the work that you do for the world.

 

Christi: Yeah, so I own, operate, principal designer, creative strategist, all the things over at Cooper and Heart Creative, um, where I build custom website designs, sales page designs, primarily for online businesses. So a lot of coaches, a lot of online service providers. Um, and I'm also kind of branching out and offering DIY templates for those who are in the earlier stages as well.

 

Lee: I am so excited about that addition to your business, I definitely want to talk more about that later. But I will say the other reason that I'm so excited to have you on the show is because you are the brains and the beauty behind my website. So when people go visit coachwithclarity.com, what they're seeing is your work. So I'm just so excited to have you here and to talk a little bit more about what it takes to have a really powerful website for your coaching practice. But before we get into that, I would love to know even more about how you came to be doing this type of work. Have you always been doing graphic design and website design?

 

Christi: Well, yeah, sort of. Um, yeah, I've been a designer for 22 years, I think at this point. So since I was like, 17. Um, so I've done the whole gamut of design, you know, I did print design, I did like stuff that went on presses. I worked at a design agency for a long time, where I – I did everything from graphics for museum exhibits, to, you know, all everything, websites, all of the things. And then about five years ago, I started my own business because I was burned out at my agency job, and I had young kids and I was just, I needed something different. So I started my online business at that point. And because I was still working my agency job at the time, I really kind of focused in on online businesses. That's where I was learning about business. And so I just kind of naturally fell into serving those businesses as well. And I started taking a lot of marketing trainings, and really understanding how the marketing is working in the online digital space. And that just kind of led to me really focusing in on websites and sales pages and sales funnels, for online businesses. So…

 

Lee: Excellent. It's interesting, I don't think I realized that when you and I first met each other, we were both relatively new to our own businesses. I think we met during coffee chats and when Reina Pomeroy was doing Social Glue. So you and I were really kind of building up our businesses right around the same time. And here we are five/six years. Look at what we've created.

 

Christi: I know. It's so amazing, isn't it? 

 

Lee: It really is, it really is.So I want to get right into it. And I want to talk about what coaches need to be thinking about or what they should be prioritizing when it comes to creating a website that's really going to serve their business.

 

Christi: Mm hmm. Yes. So the thing that I always come back to with clients or when I'm talking to someone about their website, is you really want to think about what is the action goal you are trying to get people to take on that site? Like what are you leading them to? We're not just putting up like, an online brochure or, you know, it's not like the old days where the website was just real informational and just had a contact page. Like, you really want to think about what is it you want people to do when they're on your site? So a lot of times with coaches it's book that discovery call, that consult call, uh whatever you're calling it. You know, it's usually book a call with you and so you want to think about “What are the things that people need to know, in order to make that decision for themselves?”

 

Lee: I love framing it from the perspective of the purpose of the website and like the next step,  because I know when I was first starting out, and I was bootstrapping, and I was doing just about everything on my own, including my website. That's not where I started at all. I started with the look, I started with the visuals. And I think that's a trap that a lot of us start with as coaches, because we think, oh, I want to make sure it's beautiful and eye-catching and appealing. And so I spent a lot of time on the design and the layout, and not nearly enough time on designing the flow. And thinking about the user and experience, I think. 

 

Christi: Yeah. 

 

Lee: Is that right? Okay. 

 

Christi: That’s something that I see is like, people spend a lot of time trying to make their site look a certain way or they're trying to pack a lot of information onto it or, you know, things along those lines. Versus like, just really stepping back and thinking about what is the purpose of this site? Because your site is a marketing tool. It's not just, you know, it's not just something you're putting up there just to show people your pictures and talk about you, right? It's there to help you help other people.

 

Lee: Yes, and something that I talk a lot about, particularly with the members within the Coach with Clarity membership, is your website can kind of serve one of two purposes. It's either a place where people go to verify you are who you say you are, and you do what you say you do, or it's that initial introduction to you. And what I find is that for most people who are just starting out, the people who are visiting their website, this is not their first encounter with you. Maybe they've met you at a networking meeting, maybe they've connected with you online, maybe they've been referred to you by someone else, and they're going to your website, to learn more. It's not necessarily their first encounter with you. Now, as you grow, and as you scale. And as your search engine optimization goes up, then maybe your website becomes that first touch point for people. But early on, when we're first starting out, it's generally not. And so I think that's also really helpful, too, when you're thinking about what is the purpose of my website? And then what do I want people to do after it?

 

Christi: Mm hmm. Yeah, definitely. For sure. Yeah, I find that in a lot of online coaching and service based businesses like that website is something you're sending people to, after you've already talked to them, you know, once maybe, or someone has referred them over to you. So yeah, it's not necessarily the very first time they've ever heard of you, for sure.

 

Lee: So I'm curious, by nature, but I'm wondering, you know, you are clearly like an expert when it comes to really good website design. And I think that there are a lot of us who don't know what we don't know, when it comes to that. And that's often reflected in the work that we put out there. I'm wondering if there are any sort of common pitfalls that you see coaches in particular fall into, when it comes to their website? Are there other certain mistakes that we're all making that we need to just be aware of?

 

Christi: Um, yeah, so I think the biggest one is not thinking about that primary action goal and really thinking about guiding people to it. Something else I see is people complicating booking a call process. So instead of having like a scheduler, they have like a contact form, and then they have to do like, emails back and forth. And like, you just get people who drop off you really want to make it as simple and easy as possible. And as far as like the design, it's – I don't know like so I have to kind of balance it between, like you want an attractive site that doesn't like repel people away because they're like, “Oh, gosh, this is no.” You want something that looks pretty good. Especially in those early stages when you're kind of DIY-ing it. You want something that looks pretty good, but you also don't want to spend like all your time on that either. Like I see so many people just like, spend months procrastinating or working on their website and it's just like you usually need to get out there and talk to people and it'll be good enough and your website is a living thing. Like, it doesn't have to be set in stone – you don't build it and then not touch it again, like you can change it later.

 

Lee: Yes. And I think, you know, that's the trap of wanting your website to look so beautiful is that you can get really, or maybe it's just me, I don't think so – but, we can get really caught up in making it look perfect. You know, we want to make sure that if this is representing us and our brand, that it looks great and I completely understand that impulse. And it's about finding a balance between having it look good, and then getting it out there and having it do its job for you. And not getting too caught up in the minutiae to the point where we're hiding ourselves from the world.

 

Christi: Yes, yeah, I see a lot of people just hold themselves back, because they haven't finished their website yet. And I'm like, well, sometimes, and I'm a designer, like I love seeing beautiful websites that are well designed, but like, you can only perfect it so much. And I fall into that trap myself, maybe even more so as a designer, like working on my website to death instead of just putting it out there. So.

 

Lee: So I think that the takeaway is “Done is better than perfect, because you can always go back and fine tune and refine, but get something out there.”

 

Christi: Yes, yeah! And something else I see with earlier stage business is – is they don't necessarily have to have something really, really good. Like, you can just put the bare minimum up there, just so you have enough information for people to start booking calls with you and not have to – like you don't have, an example is I believe in like a Starter Site format, where you don't have to have like an about page, a services page, a blog – like you don't need all those pages. You need a homepage that has some information on it and then a book a call page, and like that's it. Um, and just get that.

 

Lee: This is perfect. This transitions beautifully into the next question I had for you, which was from a content perspective, what should we be including on our websites? What are the ‘must haves’ and then what are the ‘nice to haves’?

 

Christi: So ‘must haves’ on content is you really want to answer the questions that people have in their mind when they're coming to your site. So you know, who are you? So they probably already know your name, right? But, you want to verify that they're in the right place. Who you are? They want to know what you do, so what type of work are you offering? What type of help are you offering? Do you help people like them? So they're really looking for, like, okay, you're a life coach, for example — Do you help people like me? Like, I'm a mom, I'm 40. Like, I run my own business? Do you help people like me? Or do you help? You know, someone else down the street? Like 20 year old athletes? I don't know. Like, but like, you want to answer like, do you help people like me? And then what? Give them some idea of what that work looks like. You know, it doesn't have to be super comprehensive. But like, “Hey, I offer six month coaching packages,” or something along those lines. And then what's the next step? So “Book a call with me, let's talk about it. This is how I can help you.” And there's other questions you can answer. Like, I have a list somewhere that I'm not recalling at the moment. But like there's other questions you can answer. But if you can answer some of those key questions, and really just kind of think of it more from your person's perspective versus your perspective, because you already know all about it. And so it's really easy when we're in our business, we just know things and assume things and we don't remember that those people from the outside don't necessarily know all those things. So,

 

Lee: Yes. Yes, I'm guilty of that, too. I kind of assumed that because I've been living and breathing this for six plus years, it's obvious. When someone who's just landing on my website and just getting to know me, it's not gonna be obvious to them. So what I'm hearing is, at minimum, we need to make sure we are addressing — who it is we're speaking to, who our client is, who we are and how we can serve them, and then how they can book a call or contact us, whatever that next step is. 

 

Christi: Yes.

 

Lee: And you mentioned too, that we don't necessarily need an about page, a services page, etc. I'm curious at what point you feel like it is appropriate, if ever, to add those components on to your website?

 

Christi: I think it's useful as your business becomes more established. And you really have honed in on your offers. So what I see in earlier stage businesses is your offers change, or maybe your ‘the people you serve’, change, your niche changes, whatever it is, but you have like all these little changes. And so you don't want to spend a lot of time building out a comprehensive services page. Building out that about page, like the about page is really for introducing people to you but most of the time, they've already kind of had a conversation with you and you don't maybe necessarily need that. But once you are more established, you're pretty solid in your offers, you're like okay, then those services pages can really serve as an additional tool to help people make a decision to work with you right? Because you can provide more information. You can provide testimonials of people who have had success with you like, you can put all of that more details in there and get people more excited about working with you. Once you've kind of honed in on that offer. And then the about page like, that's useful coming in later, when you're building more credibility, maybe you're looking for more speaking opportunities or things like that, like that about page can be more useful in those cases as well.

 

Lee: That makes sense. It's interesting, because as your business expands, your website will expand as well. But also, as you narrow your scope and get more specific about what you offer, that's also when your website can expand too, so I think that's a really helpful way to think about that. Thank you. 

 

Christi: Yeah. 

 

Lee: So I feel like we're clear from a content perspective, what needs to be on your website. What are your thoughts, though, when it comes to more of the formatting and the overall flow and design? What should we be considering when it comes to incorporating that piece into our websites?

 

Christi: Yeah, that's really tied to content for me. But I like to think of it as, like, a user journey. So that person who's landed on my homepage, they're kind of scrolling down the page. How can we break up that content into little more, easily – I’m missing a word from my brain right now. Like easier for them to read, like easier for them to take in, and consume versus like, big blocks of copy. And like, so what you really want to do with content and designing your content is you really want to break it up into little bite sized pieces. Because nobody goes to a coach's website, a business website and like, wants to read a long article. They don't want to read paragraphs, like they're just skimming it for information. And so you want to kind of break it up into little pieces, to help them kind of consume that and get the information they need in order to make that decision for that next step. And then as far as like,

 

Lee: That was such a learning experience for me. Again, I'm dating myself today. But I remember learning in English class, every paragraph needs to have at least five paragraphs. Like, if you're writing you need to have like longer paragraphs, you can't have a paragraph with one sentence or two sentences. And while that may be true in academic writing, that is not the case on a website and in emails too.  And what I'm finding is, especially on websites, your eye needs that space. It doesn't like those huge long blocks of text that maybe we are accustomed to when we're reading a book or a journal article.  But on a web page that is just going to turn the reader off, and they're not going to process anything of what you've just shared.

 

Christi: Yes, exactly. Yeah, our brains are so, we are just inundated with information constantly. Especially when we're online, you know, you're on Facebook, you've got ads, and you've got new sites, and you've got blogs, and you've got all of these things kind of coming at you. And so we're really trying, our brain is really trying to like parse down the information to just what we need. And when we're visiting a business website, we're not in the mindset of like, when you sit down to read a book or newspaper, if you read newspapers anymore, or a news article like, if I go to a news site, I am planning to read a news article. Like, I'm going to a coaches site to see if I’m interested in hiring them, I'm not looking to read an article, most cases. I'm just looking for the information that I need.

 

Lee: That makes sense. So in terms of flow and format, we certainly want to think about how we break up our text and really how each portion of that web page is working to get to that end result, which is for most of us booking a call or whatever our pathway is. Anything else we should be considering when it comes to the overall flow of our websites?

 

Christi: So something I see just more on the visual side of things is people just making things too busy, or like there's just too much going on, or a lot of like stock photos or a lot of background images, like a lot of colors and fonts. Like, especially if you're not naturally a designer or trained as a designer. Just keep it as simple as possible. Find a template or a theme or something that can help you just kind of keep things as simple and as pared down as possible, because simple is going to be better in the long run. Especially if you're in those earlier stages and you can't hire a designer yet.

 

Lee: I'm remembering, I went to a website once and they had something where, wherever I dragged my cursor it was like fireworks, you know? And so it was like fireworks all over the screen, every time I would scroll, it was so distracting. It absolutely took me away from the content. And I was just so annoyed by this stupid cursor. And so that I think is an example of really overworking your website. And so what I'm hearing is keeping it simple, keeping it streamlined is really what's going to work best for the people who are coming on your page.

 

Christi: Yes, definitely. And there's an interesting fact out there. But I think it's like 70% or 75% of people, they judge the credibility of your business, based on how that website looks, not based on the content. So like, the way it looks, has that first initial impression on them versus before they get a chance to read the content. So it's a really interesting way to think about it, is you want it to look professional, whatever professional means in your world, and not like, you know, your seven year old put it together.

 

Lee: Right? And that goes back to what we were talking about before, like finding that balance between the content and the purpose of the website, but also that aesthetically pleasing experience. Because yeah, we are judged, the minute someone lands on our website, they are likely, unconsciously or subconsciously making assumptions and decisions about us. And so we want to put our best foot forward, but not at the expense of not putting yourself out there whatsoever. Still, done is better than perfect.

 

Christi: I know! There's such a balance there. Like is it pretty enough? Is it doing enough? Like am I procrastinating? Like what? Putting it all together?

 

Lee: So we all go through that, even designers go through that. So that's a little bit reassuring. 

 

Christi:Yes, yes. 

 

Lee: So you mentioned templates. And I want to talk to you a little bit about that, especially because I know that, the fact that you are offering templates now is a fairly new development in your business. I'm so curious, what prompted you to decide to go that route and provide templates for your people?

 

Christi: Yeah, so I just have, I have a soft spot for people who are in those early stages. And I always like, want to help them and I want to help them design their stuff. But honestly, my rates are just, they're just not at the point for most beginner businesses. And so I wanted to offer something that was at a lower price point, but was also more tailored to their type of business. Like, I don't see a lot of templates or themes or anything that are really targeted at online service based or coach type businesses. And so I wanted to put that together. And I also wanted to provide copy guidance at the same time, as I did, you know, providing not just a design, but also copy guidance. And like, this is what type of copy you should write in each section – so that they have that all put together versus like trying to piece it together from different sources.

 

Lee: That sounds like such a holistic approach to your website. And I also love that you did this deliberately to support people who are just starting out. I certainly could have benefited from that six years ago when I was trying to figure things out on my own. So for people who do opt to use templates, what are some best practices? What are things that they should consider when using a template? Especially if they want to really make it their own?

 

Christi: Yeah, so for a template, you want to kind of think about, when you're choosing a template or theme. You want to really think about what is that underlying vibe or personality or characteristics that you want to communicate to people? Do you want it to be fun and lighthearted? Do you want it to be more calm and serious? Like, what kind of feeling are you trying to communicate and you can just pick like a couple of words to kind of think about that. And then you'll want to kind of look at, this gets tricky for some people, like choosing colors and things like that. And I have some tips for that in a guide, that I have a freebie actually, for kind of looking for keywords and then looking for color palettes that kind of represent that. So I think color is probably the biggest thing to think about and then looking at the structure of the templates. So whether it's smooth and curving lines or more geometric like just kind of getting a sense of which direction you want to go. And also something I kind of caution against, especially with beginner businesses, is a lot of templates – like this is something that bothers me about Squarespace, nothing against Squarespace, but you know, they're a great company that a lot of people have wonderful websites there. But a lot of their templates are really photo based. And so if you don't have great photos, it's really hard to make those templates look good for your business. And I try to sell for that by not doing like a really photo based template like, because I know as a beginner business, you're like, “Well, I have one headshot, like what am I gonna do? I don’t have a brand photo shoot.” you know? And then people end up putting in stock photos, and then it feels a little like, not as genuine as it could be, you know? 

 

Lee: And it's like, haven't I seen that photo somewhere before? Like, there are stock photos that get a lot of play. 

 

Christi: There are a lot of some stock photos that are great photos so people choose them all the time, but then you see them in multiple places. So you also want to be conscious of that when you're choosing a template or theme like, is it using a lot of photos? Is that why the demo image looks so good? Is it because of the photos? Or is it because of the actual structure of it? And so you kind of want to play with that and see what works best for you.

 

Lee: That makes a lot of sense. So alright, let's assume we've followed all of your guidance, and either through templates, or from working with a designer, we've got a website that we love, it's out there, the world is viewing it. What do we need to think about in terms of maintaining it? What are some things that sometimes get missed when it comes to keeping your website relevant and user friendly?

  

Christi: So, might depend on your platform. So if you're, if you're using, you know, I just mentioned Squarespace, you're using Squarespace or Wix; I don't recommend Wix. But if you're using something like that, usually that kind of back end maintenance is already taken care of for you. And so you're just looking at maintaining your content, making sure you're updating like the copyright year at the bottom of your footer, things along those lines. If you have a WordPress site, which I do a lot of WordPress sites, there is more maintenance involved, just because it's a little, because of the technology, it's more flexible. So you can add a lot of functionality. But that doesn't mean you have to maintain it. And a lot of people get intimidated by that. But it actually takes like five minutes a month, you just make sure you have a backup, update your plugins and themes. And, you know, make sure you have a security plug in. And usually you're good to go. You're not like, under high risk. You're not like a government website where people are trying to hack you all the time, like you're, it's not as serious as that. As far as, usually your site will last you for a little while, you do want to make sure that you're updating copyright dates, you probably want to go in and update your services information, if you know you've changed any of that at some point. If you, I’m not an SEO expert, but if you are looking at SEO, you do want to have some sort of content that is changing out and being refreshed and added. So podcast episodes or blog posts, like at some point. If you're a beginner, don't worry about that. But if you're more established, and you're looking to start to look at longer term growth and bringing in traffic that way, like that might be something to consider to update content and stuff like that.

 

Lee: Excellent. I feel like we've really run the gamut today. I mean, we've talked about everything you need to think about when you're first starting out, to development and creation and maintenance. I mean, we've covered it all. And yet I know that there are going to be people who have more questions and who want to learn more about you and your design services and your templates. So what is the best way for people to get in touch with you?

 

Christi: Yes, so my website is cooperandheart.com, and then I have a link to my template shop from there. And then if you want to follow me or send me a message, I'm on Instagram @CooperAndHeart so it's an easy way to get hold of me.

 

Lee: Excellent. We will have links to your website and your Instagram page on the show notes page. So definitely check that out. And Christi, I just want to say thank you for being here today, for sharing your wisdom and your expertise with us. It's been such a pleasure to talk to you.

 

Christi: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a joy!

 

 

Many, many thanks to Christi for sharing her wisdom with us this week, definitely head on over to her website and to her Instagram to learn more about her and her services. And of course, we will have that over at the show notes coachwithclarity.com/99 – that is the number 99. In addition to being this week's guest on the show, Christi is also this month's guest expert inside the Coach with Clarity Collective. Every month inside the collective, we have an industry expert who comes and provides an in depth training around a topic that coaches need to know. And this month we are diving into all things website. So if you would like access to that training, then head on over to coachwithclarity.com/membership and click on that waitlist button. Go ahead and do that now. Trust me, you want to be on the waitlist before the collective opens for enrollment next month. That's all I'm gonna say about that. But people who are on the waitlist, you are going to be very happy that you chose to sign up early. So head on over to coachwithclarity.com/membership, get on the waitlist, you'll get an email from me. And then we'll talk about how you can access all of the benefits that come with your collective membership. Now at the top of the podcast, I mentioned that next week is our big 100th episode celebration. I'm going to be sharing 10 things that I have learned over the last two to three years of podcasting to reflect on where we've come and to imagine what is in store for the next 100 episodes and beyond. So I hope that you will join me for that celebration, because it's not just a celebration of the podcast. It's not just a celebration for me, it is celebrating you. This show would not be what it is without you. I am so grateful that you choose to listen week after week, month after month, year after year. And my deepest hope is that in every episode, there's something that inspires you, that informs you, that encourages you, that empowers you, I create the show for you and I am so grateful that you are here taking this journey with me. And so next week when we celebrate 100 episodes, I will be celebrating you. So I hope you will join me and the best way to do so is to subscribe or follow this podcast wherever you listen to your shows. It is absolutely free to subscribe or to follow the show. And when you do that ensures that you will never miss an episode because it will be automatically downloaded to your feed. So, whatever you use to listen to the show, whether it's Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, whatever the platform is, there should be a way for you to go ahead and follow the show. And then next Monday, you will see a brand new episode of the Coach with Clarity Podcast in your feed. So get ready to celebrate with me next week. And until then, my name is Lee Chaix McDonough reminding you to get out there and show the world what it means to be a Coach with Clarity.