Lee: Well, hello, Abby, thank you so much for coming on the Coach with Clarity Podcast.

 

Abby: Hi, Lee. Thanks for having me.

 

Lee: I am really excited to welcome you and to talk about all things content. But before we do, why don't we start out by learning a little bit more about you and the work that you do for the world? 

Abby: Yeah, sure. I am Abby Herman. My business is The Content Experiment. And I am a content strategist and consultant for online service based businesses, and my team and I help them to get their content out there to the world. So we focus on idea generation, we do podcast management, blog management, content creation, and implementation. So basically, we kind of take over the reins for the overwhelmed online business owner, so that they can focus on doing the things that they love to do in business. And we take care of all the little behind the scenes stuff, so that their ideas still get out there.

Lee: Oh, I love that. Because there is a lot of behind the scenes stuff, and it can feel overwhelming when you are a business of one, a company of one, if you will. So to be able to partner with someone like you, I would imagine that just oh, just it's like taking a deep breath, knowing that your bases are covered. 

Abby: Yes, yes. 

Lee: How long have you been doing this kind of work?

Abby: Um, so with any business, it's kind of morphed and changed over the years. So I started in 2007, just doing straight up copywriting and content creation, while I was also a full time teacher. So I started that. So it was my, it was a side hustle that I did for years. And then in 2013, I left teaching to grow my business full time. So I've been doing it, what does that give me like eight years? Almost nine years now of doing this full time, so. And you know, over the years, things have changed. And I used to, I used to say that I was a freelancer, I called myself a freelancer. And then I transitioned into calling myself a business owner. And during that transition, I also went from just content on demand is what I called it, where somebody would say, “I need this, I need this blog post, I need this email sequence”. And I'd say, “Okay!”, and I would just do it, knowing in my head that this is not really what they need, you know? This is not the best practice, this isn't, you know, and a lot of times, you know, back in the day, my content would not see the light of day. It would never land on their website, it wouldn't land on their social media channels, they wouldn't actually send the emails. And it was really frustrating. So in 2016-2017, I transitioned into creating the content strategy for clients. And so then I started only working with clients who allowed me to create that content strategy and to like, really partner together instead of me just doing the work. Because I mean, everybody likes to get paid. It was nice to make the money. But it wasn't, I didn't feel like I was doing the best work that I could possibly do until I've made that transition in 2016.

Lee: That makes so much sense. That's got to be so frustrating to know that you've created a solid product, but because the infrastructure wasn't there to support it through the strategy, it wasn't being utilized. And I imagine as someone who creates that content, yes, you've been paid for it. But don't you want to see that out in the world too? So it makes sense that you've woven in the strategy piece as well.

Abby: Yes, just like coaches who want to see their clients take action on what they talked to their clients about. I want to see my clients take action. So now I make sure that actually happens, because we do all of the action, and do the behind the scenes stuff for clients also.

 

Lee: That is such a great comparison. And I think there are actually a lot of similarities between the work I do as a coach, the work you do as a content strategist and creator. In fact, I think one of the things we can compare is the fact that there are about 8 million definitions for the word coach, and how people coach and how they describe them will vary. And I think we could say the same thing about content as well. And so I'd love to just hear from you, in your words. How do you define content? Like what are we even talking about when we're talking about content?

 

Abby: Yeah, so my informal, off the cuff definition of content, is anything that you create and put out there for your business to help drive people to your offers, to your services, to your products, to whatever. So I think a lot of people think of content as blogs and podcasts, which is true. However, content is kind of all encompassing, all encompassing. So right now, me being a guest on your podcast, this is your content. But it's also content for me because I can take this and I can share it with my audience as well. And by the way, if you're ever a guest on somebody's episode, that’s what you should do. Because it's your content. Things like social media, that's content, YouTube videos, Reels, Tiktoks, all of that has content. But then there are other things that I think people don't always recognize as content, like when somebody comments on something that you've posted on social media. Your response to their comment is content, because you're putting it out there, it is representing yourself and your business. When you comment on somebody else's post, that's content. You're getting in front of that person's audience, by making a comment on their post, and that's really important. Other things are trainings in other people's Facebook groups or memberships. You know, standing up on the stage and sharing with an audience, whether it's virtual or in person. Your opt-ins, the things that you do to attract audiences to you. And to attract people, that's content. Your emails that you send, even if it's an individual one-to-one email, that's still content. If you're sending a direct message to somebody in LinkedIn, or Instagram, that's content. It's one-to-one, but it's still content. So content is just anything that you put out there to connect with people, to promote what you're doing, to talk about what you're doing, to help people succeed. That's all content.

 

Lee: I so appreciate how broad that definition is. Because it creates space for everything and anything to potentially be content. I, you really kind of blew my mind, actually, because I was just sitting here thinking, “Wow, I've never considered my response to someone's post on my Instagram feed as content, or when I'm commenting on someone else's post that content”, but it is. And so there's different types of content, right? There's engagement oriented content, there's instructional content. But it's all content. It's all how we connect with people and get the word out about who we are and what we do.

Abby: Mm hmm. Yep, absolutely. And I think a lot of people miss that too. You have your own, probably standard response to certain questions and those certain topics. So if you have those maybe saved in a Google Doc, you can copy and paste. So just save yourself some time copy and paste. Obviously, you want to personalize it for whatever that particular question is, or the particular comment is, but yeah, like you have your standard responses. So use those. And that is content, because it's sharing your beliefs, your knowledge, your expertise, with other people.

Lee: That's really helpful. And I do have some standard templates that I use. But please, please, for the love of God personalize. I don't know about you, I have been on the receiving end of so many cut and paste templates, where it's clearly not written for me, sometimes that even has someone else's name in it. That's always lovely.

Abby: Ouch.

Lee: Yeah, so let's make sure when we're doing that we are personalizing it. So that's an excellent tip. You know, I can, I'm sitting here thinking about all of the opportunities, all of the possibilities that we can do with content creation. But that can feel like a lot. And I'm wondering what your thoughts are about where to start? How do we begin creating content in a way that connects us with our people without adding to the overwhelm?

Abby: Yeah. So the first thing that I would recommend is, know who you're talking to, and who you want to attract. And then find out, where are they showing up online? And what do they need and want from you in order to make a good purchasing decision. So in order to decide whether they want to work with you or not. So I always recommend serving your audience by talking to the people who are a really good fit for your products and services. And yeah, like ask them. What do you need? What's frustrating you? What's difficult for you? When you do that, they actually give you the content ideas that you need. So and, and in this sense, I'm talking about like your pillar content. So the content that you own, the content that you are publishing on your podcast, your blog, your YouTube channel, that's what I consider pillar content because it belongs to you. Your social media content does not belong to you. So find out where they are showing up. How do they like to consume content? Create that and create you know what they're looking for. And I mentioned serving your audience. So I actually have a challenge.It's a five day free challenge that you can download, it actually walks you through what questions to ask, who to ask, who not to ask to fill out your survey. And you can get that at TheContentExperiment.com/clarity. And you can download it and take it for free.

Lee: Excellent, we will be sure to have a link to that in the show notes as well. But that sounds like such a valuable offer. Because when you know who to talk to and what to ask, and you're getting all of your ideas and your data there, then it's like this unlimited resource. You can always go back to that to figure out, “Okay, how can I show up and serve my people?”.

Abby: Yes. And you know, it really helps you decide, where are you going to focus your time? Where are you going to put your time and energy? So I did that, as I've done a survey multiple times, but I did one, specifically in February of 2019. I just sent out a survey to my audience, and it came back. 100% of the people I surveyed, I think I surveyed about 24 people, 100% of them said, “When are you starting a podcast? I listened to podcasts, when are you starting a podcast?”. And I had no intention, no desire to start a podcast, I did not want to have a podcast. But guess who has a podcast now? Over two years now, because my audience wanted one. And you know, my business has grown so much since then, because I'm able to connect with people on a more personal level. I'm a writer, I love to blog, I love to write things. And that's what I was doing. I have gotten more feedback, and responses, and engagement with people through the podcast than I ever did blogging. So it completely changed my business just by doing that one survey. 

 

Lee: And what a gift your people gave you by making that suggestion of when or you know, where's your podcast, this is what we want, you got to give the people what they want. And in turn, it's allowed you to grow your business too.  What a beautiful reciprocal relationship that became then. And like you, I have found that nothing has connected me with people and allowed me to grow my business like podcasting. I am a huge proponent of it, whether you have your own or whether you are on other people's, maybe even both, as you and I both do. It can be such a powerful way to get your message out. And in a way where people are, they feel deeply connected to you. And I think for me, that's the magic of podcasting more than any other medium. People really feel like they know you. And they develop that deeper bond with you.

Abby: Yes, because they actually get to hear your voice. And that is so powerful to be able to hear your voice. Yes.

 

Lee: It is. So you mentioned like in terms of where to start, we first need to know who it is we're creating content for, and then where they are. Can we talk a little bit about that “where” piece? Because for me, that tends to be a sticking point. Sometimes I'm, you know, also they're everywhere. You know, where are they not? And I feel it is hard to narrow the scope. What are your thoughts about that?

Abby: Yeah. Well, first of all, you do not have to be everywhere, and you do not have to be everywhere that your audience is. So where do they show up for whatever your offer is, whatever type of coaching you do, whether it's business or or personal life coaching, whatever it happens to be? Where are they showing up to find information about that? So in general, and this is completely generalizing here, but a lot of people show up on LinkedIn for business. A lot of people show up on Instagram for fun, and you know, some business, yes, but also a lot of fun. And then a lot of people show up on Facebook for family related stuff. And that's how they connect with their families. So when you think about that, in general, again totally generalizing here, where would the best place be for you to show up? So if people say, and use your audience survey as a guide too, if they are not showing up on YouTube, they don't like to watch YouTube videos, then why spend the time, and energy, and investment in YouTube? So I had a client a couple of years ago who was so set on having a YouTube channel. She works specifically with moms. And she wanted a YouTube channel. That's where her people are showing up. She was watching a lot of YouTube herself. And I said, “Have you talked to the people who you want to buy from you? Have you talked to your audience?”. And she wasn't going to do it but she finally did do a survey. Nobody was watching YouTube. Everybody wanted podcasts. So she's like,” Yep, I just saved myself a whole bunch of time and money you know worrying about YouTube”.. So yeah, you do not have to be everywhere like we see, you know, big names, gurus and all of that all over the place. And you don't, you don't really need to do that, or if you choose to. So one of the things that I do is I create, when I create show notes, for my podcast, I include captions for all of the platforms, except for Twitter. I've stopped using Twitter in that way. But I create these captions, and I post them. And some of them like, I don't spend a lot of time on Facebook, I spend a lot more time on LinkedIn and Instagram. So that's where I'm going to go to try to engage with people. And I'm going to leave Facebook because let's face it, the algorithms on Facebook are a nightmare. So it's hard to get the attention there anyway. So I'm going to spend my time where my people are showing up, which is Instagram on LinkedIn, and where my ideal client is, and my ideal client specifically is on LinkedIn. So my ideal agency client. So yeah, like, know, where your people are showing up and show up there. If you want to have just some static posts, go out to some of the platforms, just to show that, you know, your business is still breathing, do that. But then focus your own time and energy where your people are.

Lee: That's really helpful, I think, to understand that audiences evolve. I know when I started my business in 2016, Facebook was where it was at. Everyone was on Facebook. And when I started my Facebook group in 2018, that was a really powerful vehicle to connect with my audience, to show up and serve them. I still have my Facebook group, I'm still there. But what I'm finding is that people don't want to be on Facebook as much anymore. And so, I'm having to pivot and decide, where do I want to be and where is my audience now? So I can see the value of having that survey and doing it every 6 to 12 months just to check the pulse of your people to make sure you're still meeting them where they're at.

Abby: Yes, I do want to mention also, because it's so true that audiences evolve, things change and new social media platforms come up. I would say be careful about jumping on board with something right away. So there have been a couple of membership type platforms that people have completely let go of Facebook and jumped over to this membership platform, only to find out that people are not logging in. Their members are not going there. They're not logging in, because we're so used to being able to do that on Facebook, right? Even though we're maybe not as active there anymore. But there, we're used to doing that. And then you have other platforms, and I'm going to use Clubhouse as an example because that showed up and everybody jumped, everybody. A lot of people jumped on board with that really quickly. But it feels like I mean, at this point, it's kind of died down. People aren't using it as much. We're back to our old standbys, Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram. And use what works. And yes, try out new things. But you don't need to put all of your time and effort into new things. I saw a post the other day that someone did like an eight hour Clubhouse room on the weekend, and I was like, “Oh, my God”. That sounds absolutely miserable to me. If it's working for her, great. But you know what, you just have to be careful about jumping on board to new things.

Lee: I think that is sage counsel. And it's okay to you know, be aware that they're out there, maybe try them out. But if you know that LinkedIn has always been your go to place, then why would you abandon that for something brand new?

Abby: Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. Try out the new things, but don't abandon what's working until well, maybe this one is going to start working more, maybe this new platform will work better for you, you know, then you can kind of shift your energy. But don't totally give up on something.

Lee: Yes. So what else should coaches be thinking about in terms of creating and sharing content to help their ideal clients feel more connected to them? Because that's what I hear a lot from coaches, which is, I know that once I connect with someone, and we have that bond, I can serve them and they're gonna want to work with me. It's just creating that initial bond. So how do you see content supporting that?

Abby: So content again, a lot of people think of it as you know, your podcast, your YouTube channel, your blog, that's the content that we kind of push out there to people. So what's something that you can create that will pull them toward you? And that's where we get to those comments, and interacting with people, and direct messages. And that means that you're spending time paying attention to what other people are creating. You're answering questions, you're being supportive. You are providing value in comments and in places where we're not just necessarily pushing out to people. So, and I don't mean, not in a creepy gross way where you say, “Oh, I can help with this, here's my link, buy this thing for me”. You're having a conversation with someone. So it's about paying attention to people. And knowing, you know, who are the people who you want to interact with, and who you want to, or who you know, are, like perfect clients for you. Interact with those people, build a relationship. And this is such a long game, it takes a long time to do that. However, that is where you're going to get like your raving fans and the perfect clients that come to you. So I think that would probably be a number one. And then reaching out to people who have podcasts or who are in front of your ideal audience, building relationships with them. Be a part of their podcast, be a part of their event, pitch to speak at something that they're doing, offer to go in and support their members. There are a lot of different ways that you can, you know, get in front of the right people. Leveraging other people's audiences, again, in a non creepy, non sleazy way, like you want to be a value. And I like to say, to just approach, any conversation, any interaction that you have from a place of helping. You want to help people, you want to support people. And when you do that, and you do that, consistently, the sales will come. It's just again, it's a long game.

Lee: I'm glad you said that, I want to emphasize the fact that these ideas work, but they do take time. We don't build deep relationships overnight. And in fact, in my personal life, I know that when I've had a relationship that got deep, really quickly, it kind of petered out just as quickly. And so we really are talking about creating long term relationships. And to do that we need to be willing to invest that time. So part of it requires us to trust the process, to show up regularly, and then ultimately to be of service. I think that's the biggest takeaway I got.

Abby: Yeah, I agree.

Lee: So how do we do this Abby, where we are living in a world where it seems like everything and everyone is always on? And especially when we look at content. So broadly, it can feel like there's all this content all the time, 24/7. It can feel a little overwhelming. So how do we find that balance? How do we show up and serve without adding to the noise?

 

Abby: So I think that goes back to, well, so this is kind of twofold. So when you're creating content, and you don't want to add to the noise. It's knowing exactly what your people want, knowing that nobody wants an email in their inbox every single day from you, right? It's not necessary. If you're building the relationships, and you're taking time to do that, you do not need to email your audience every day, nor should you in my opinion. So it's about just having really high quality, valuable content that you put out there. You do not need to publish every day. In fact, you really shouldn't be publishing content every day. It takes way too much time and effort and it's going to get lost. You're competing with yourself if you're trying to if you're trying to post all the time. So I would say on the content creation and business ownership side, you do not have to be everywhere all the time. You don't have to publish all the time. Just focus on valuable high quality content and be consistent with it. So determine how often you can publish a LinkedIn article. For example, can you do one once a week, maybe every other week? Figure out what is doable for you and focus on that and be consistent with that. And then on the other side, and this is more of like, I feel like this is more of like the personal side because we are humans, as business owners. So we're on social media, and we are interacting with people and we're looking at social media from a personal standpoint, and from a business standpoint, too. So we're considered like when we're on Facebook, we see business posts, and we see family posts and friends and things like that. So I personally try, this is not perfect, and just set boundaries. Like I'm going to spend, you know, 30 minutes on Instagram at lunchtime and I'm going to engage with people on Instagram during that time, and then I'm going to shut it off. Now, is that really what happens all the time? No. But in my ideal world, in my head, that's what I want to have happen. You're not going to miss out on a sale because you didn't respond to something within five minutes. You're not going to miss out on something because you're not there. If you have built relationships, people will shout you out, you'll start getting those direct messages. There's a funny meme that I saw. And it's a little boy looking inside, like an old school mailbox. And it says something like, “If you checked your mailbox as often as you check your email inbox, how crazy would your neighbors think you were?”. Like, what would your neighbors think? So and, you know, I mean, I say this, I'm completely guilty of checking my inbox way more than I should, but just having boundaries around, what you're going to check, how often you're going to check, how often you're going to interact, you know, you're not going to miss out on anything. And we all have that FOMO, I get it. I have it too, sometimes. But it's okay to shut it down and walk away. I will say that I've gotten really good at, at like, 4:30pm every day, I shut it down. And I'm done with work for the day. I don't respond to emails, I don't respond to Slack messages with my clients after that. Because I mean, you know, there's rarely an emergency that needs my attention, right, then.

 

Lee: I appreciate that. I'm working on creating those stronger boundaries in my life too. And it is challenging. And especially when we're talking about social media, because those are designed to grab our attention and keep it and hold it. So to set boundaries around that, it's a challenge. I find the timer is my friend though. Like I will literally set a timer and say, okay, 30 minutes, and then when it goes off, hopefully I have the wherewithal to close the app and move on. But I think creating those structures can help us see the growth that we want in our business, but not at the expense of the rest of our life.

 

Abby: Yeah, yeah. Mel Robbins has the five second rule, where you count 54321. And then boom, you're done. Like you just need to, but it's, it's your own strength that needs to shut it down. It doesn't always happen, I agree it does not always happen.

Lee: Well, Abby, I have so enjoyed our conversation today. Thank you so much for being here. And I would love for you to just let us all know if we want to continue this conversation with you and learn even more about you and the work that you do, how can we find you?

Abby: I am on Instagram at The Content Experiment. I'm on LinkedIn, Abby M. Herman on LinkedIn. And you can always find me on my website, TheContentExperiment.com.

 

Lee: Terrific. We will have links to all of that and more in the show notes. But Abby again, I just want to thank you for coming on the show. I really enjoyed our time together today.

 

Abby: You're very welcome. Thank you so much.

I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Abby Herman as much as I did. I had the distinct pleasure of meeting Abby in person at She Podcasts LIVE, which is the largest conference for women and non binary podcasters. I have been connected with Abby for several years, but getting to meet her in person was such a treat. And even though she mentioned podcasting was not originally her idea, that it came from her audience. Let me tell you, her podcast is a terrific resource. It is called The Content Experiment Podcast. So go ahead and find it wherever you're listening to this podcast right now. Follow or subscribe, because come mid-February, you may hear another familiar voice on Abby's podcast. That's right. I will be a guest on her show somewhere around February 16th. So go ahead and follow The Content Experiment Podcast now, and listen to my interview on Abby’s show. We had a really good time and I think you'll enjoy it. All right, my friend. That is it for this week's episode of the Coach with Clarity Podcast. I hope you will join me for next week's episode because it is going to be a good one. We are talking about all things connection calls. So when you first get on a Zoom call, or a phone call, or an in person meeting with a prospective client, what should you say? What should you do? How should you structure it? We are going to explore that in next week's episode. So if you are not already following the Coach with Clarity Podcast, you will definitely want to do so. Hit that little follow or subscribe button wherever you listen to your shows. So that way next week's episode will appear in your feed automatically on Monday morning. So until then, my name is Lee Chaix McDonough, reminding you to get out there and show the world what it means to be a Coach with Clarity.