Lee: Well. Hi, Robyn. Welcome to the Coach with Clarity podcast. I am so excited to welcome you as our guest today. 

 

Robyn: Thank you. Or as you would say, well, hello, my friend. 

 

Lee: I do say that, don't I? Oh, my goodness. I've been looking forward to this conversation for such a long time. Avid podcast listeners have probably heard me reference my amazing operations manager, Robyn. Well, that's you. And I thought, oh, my gosh, wouldn't it be fun to have an interview where we bring you on and we talk a little bit about what it's like to work together and specifically how you support coaches with their businesses and their day to day operations? So I'm really excited to bring you on the show. 

 

Robyn: Yeah, I mean, it's nice to kind of be on the other side of it all, but also, I think people are itching to kind of see behind the curtain of Coach With Clarity. So let's do it. 

 

Lee: All right. Let's do it. But before we draw the curtain back, let's start with you. Let's talk a little bit about who you are and the work that you do for the world. 

 

Robyn: Yeah. So I am an online business manager, which is intentionally vague. I know, I know coaches. We'll get into it, don't worry. All the services I provide and those I don't. But I am an online business manager to online coaches that have a therapeutic background. So maybe like Lee that are former social workers or former therapists. I do prefer to work with coaches that have some sort of accreditation or therapeutic background. And I support pretty much the execution of the back end of their business. That can mean a lot of things. Like I said, we'll get into it. 

 

Lee: We will, we will. And I'm really curious, Robyn, about your journey to this point and how you carved out this niche for yourself serving coaches, particularly coaches with therapeutic or human service backgrounds, because you've built such a thriving business. And I always love hearing about the journey that people go through to get where they are today. So tell us about your beginnings and what brought you to where you are now. 

 

Robyn: Yeah, so, I mean, my professional background prior to entering the entrepreneurial space, I worked in the travel industry for corporate travel companies. So fantastic perks. I got to see the world on someone else's dime, got to meet incredible people, worked in a ton of different capacities, from sales to operations to planning wine tours through Southern Italy to putting together an international school in Toronto. I had a really wide range of experience from the travel industry, but it's a story we hear often in April of 2020. I was furloughed from the company I was working for at the time. And I have to say, it took me a bit by surprise in that I felt a lot of relief when that furlough came about. Not in the way that I was relieved to be unemployed, that was absolutely terrifying, but relieved in the way that I never quite felt like I found my place in the corporate lifestyle, perhaps is the better way to say it. And I felt like the furlough finally provided me with the opportunity to explore freelancing, which had always been, in the back of my mind, kind of having my own business, being my own boss. And so I kind of seized that window of time when we were all locked down inside, trying to keep our communities and families safe. I had a lot of time on my hands, so I was doing some volunteer work and really just kind of buckled down and tried to see what it would take to build out a business. And really went into this just knowing that I wanted to collaborate with people that inspired me, knowing that I wanted to build a community of some sort and wanting the freedom that freelancing or entrepreneurship can really offer. So for me, the beginning of that journey looked like hunting through Upwork and Fiverr, which I learned very quickly was not the route for me. A lot of those projects are really transactional, and I also didn't bring a lot to the table in those circumstances. I didn't have a portfolio of work. I didn't have sales pages I could show. I knew I really needed to connect with the right individuals and then build my business from there. And so there enters Lee, I guess amongst many of my first kind of cohort of clients. Lee and I started working together in, I think it was September of 2020. 

 

Lee: It's funny, because I was thinking as I was preparing for our interview today, I was thinking back to when we started working together. And it's funny because it's hard for me to remember a time before you, because you have become such an integral part of Coach with clarity. But you're right. We did start working together in 2020. And I would love to know from your perspective, because from my perspective, I just got this amazing email from you in my inbox, and I was like, I have to talk to this woman. I'm wondering what it was like from your end. How did you go about finding potential people to partner with, like me and yeah, just walk us through that piece of it. 

 

Robyn: Yeah. I think this also will bring up some good questions about how to know if you're ready to bring on support, because I think what was also so different about our work together at the beginning that was so helpful to me as a kind of new business owner, new service provider, is like, you had your shit together. I don't know if I can say that. 

 

Lee: You can say that.

Robyn: Okay. You had it together. So I was working with a number of individuals at that point, through Fiverr and Upwork. A lot of those relationships were really transactional, and that works for a lot of people. For me, I really love the collaboration piece. I like to feel like I am a member of your business. I'm invested in it. I want that to be appreciated, and I like that sense of community that comes with it. So I think when you and I started working together, obviously that initial kind of trust had to be built. Where you now, you were like, “Okay, yeah, Robyn can run with this. She's good.” But even at the beginning, the onboarding process, for example, you were able to tell me exactly what you needed me to do, the frequency, how long you thought it was going to take me, what your budget was from the beginning, just super clear expectations about what you needed from me and how you expected it to be done. Which I have to say, even with the clients that I was only doing a project for, it was day and night. I was really finding that a lot of people in the entrepreneurial space, they were kind of entering into these situations of wanting support. But I get them on the phone or get on a Zoom call, and I'd say, “Okay, so how can I help you? What kind of support are you looking for?” And then they would just kind of launch into what wasn't going right or what their issue was or what they couldn't do. And I will say at this point in my business, I can very much respond to that now, but when I was just a couple of months in, it was a little bit of like the blind leading the blind. So I think from the beginning, working with you and kind of seeing the inner workings of Coach with Clarity, it also opened my eyes to, “Oh, there are individuals like this out there that are running their businesses in the way that I would run it, that I hope to run my business one day,” and that's with transparency, that's respecting each other's boundaries, that's understanding the expectations and really bringing our whole selves to the business each and every day. 

So to loop back to your question, though, I made the connection with you, and I think that really cemented for me, that I wanted coaches to be my niche and coaches that specifically had therapeutic backgrounds and where were accredited to be coaching, because I know it's a gray area. We talk a lot about in Coach with Clarity, but there were also a lot of clients that I worked with that were coaches that didn't always have the training or expertise to back it up and that sometimes put me in an uncomfortable situation. So that was something that I knew from the beginning I needed to start looking out for, and that's just a personal preference, but I wouldn't have known to want that preference if it hadn't been for my work with you really early on. 

 

Lee: Well, that's kind of an honor for me, actually, to hear that our work together was foundational in helping you figure out who it was exactly you wanted to work with and also what you were looking for in a client. And I will admit, I had four years of experience coming into our initial conversation and ultimately our work together. And in those four years, I probably made a lot of the mistakes that a lot of the other people you would talk to were making. There was certainly a point in my business where I was unclear what kind of support I needed, what that might look like. I was looking for someone to come in and maybe tell me what I needed to do versus me stepping into the leadership role, stepping up as a CEO and saying, “No, this is the deficit that I have in my business right now. Is this something you can support me with?” So that really required a mindset shift on my part in addition to knowing my business well enough that I could see what was absent, that needed to be built up and what was working that needed to be delegated and to figure out how you and I could work together. And I suspect part of the reason we work so well together is because we have similar values. We approach our work in very similar ways and we both prioritize integrity and transparency. And I've always felt comfortable turning things over to you and letting you run with it because we have those shared values and you bring a wealth of knowledge and experience to the table as well. So I feel very fortunate that you and I found each other when we did. And admittedly, it did take me a couple attempts at finding my Robyn. I worked with other VA’s and other support people in the past who were lovely people, but for whatever reason, it just wasn't quite the right fit in my business. And so when you came along, I think it sounds like it was mutually beneficial and that we both found what we needed in each other. 

 

Robyn: Absolutely. I took a page out of your book as well. Like I said, being able to kind of see behind the curtain of Coach With Clarity. I saw very quickly that you practice what you preach, you know. You were talking about like, for example, the lens of what used to be the Coach With Clarity community, the free Facebook group that you had where you would genuinely go online and provide your time for free just helping others. Not ending that help with a sales pitch, not asking people to jump on a quick call with you and swipe their card. It was just very genuine help and support. And looping back to your question about how I found other clients like you. I started doing that. I started going into Facebook groups or other community spaces where I knew coaches would be, so where I knew that people I wanted to work with would be and just offering help. And yes, it was a time investment on my side. A lot of people could look at that and be like, “Wow, you really gave a lot away for free.” But it made me feel good. I like helping people. I like being in service to others. So knowing that I was gaining a bit of expertise and authority by doing that, by helping others and being seen that way, it quickly resulted in referrals and people coming into my DMs and being like, “I was so grateful for that help that you provided me with. I'm now in a place where I could hire someone. Are you available?” And I mean, I'm overjoyed to say that I've yet to have to market myself or my business one time in the three years I've been in business, all of my growth has been completely word of mouth, organic or referrals. And it's, I think, genuinely from finding my niche so early and then also from putting that tactic that you talk about so often into practice.

 

Lee: That is so exciting to hear. And I love that that tactic of showing up and serving, that's not unique to the coaching industry. I think regardless of what you do, whether you're an online business manager, whether you're a consultant or a strategist, it's about the relationship. It's about seeing people as unique humans with needs that maybe we can come in and support. And that's why I think going into Facebook Groups or Instagram/Threads or on Quora or Reddit or wherever, you can show up and be of service by providing some insights, some ideas, people will respond to that and to your point, that's the foundation of the relationship. And so then you become top of mind when they're ready to move forward in a more official capacity. So bringing you on as their operations manager or their online business manager. So I am thrilled to hear that that strategy worked for you and that now your business runs largely on referrals and organic relationship development. I think that is phenomenal. So congratulations. 

 

Robyn: Thank you. And I don't think either of us are sitting here saying to use that tactic without some sort of boundary in place. Kindness can definitely be mistaken for weakness in the entrepreneurial space. So it is good to know where you're going to draw your line, how much support you're going to provide before you start to have the conversation of this is normally a paid service or can I help you in some other capacity? I know you and I have both talked about that in the past, but it is though, I think as you mentioned, just going into those spaces with a very genuine mindset to help, but also knowing your own boundary, know where you're going to draw the line. 

 

Lee: I'm so glad you made that point and I think too understanding when something has run its course. You alluded to the Coach with Clarity Community, which was my free Facebook Group, which we're kind of about to make officially once and for all inactive because it does require a lot of time and energy and effort to maintain that space. And I was finding that I was showing up and serving people in all sorts of spaces, including this podcast and also in other Facebook groups, and I felt my own energy was just becoming too diffuse. And so I made the difficult choice actually to ramp down the Coach with Clarity Facebook Group. Not because I don't want to continue to show up and serve, I do, but I have to be mindful of the ways in which I can do that, that still honor my energy and my business. So that's why the podcast now has become really the primary way for me to be of service on a free level. This is open to all for free. It's a great way to explore general topics that coaches face and then knowing that if someone is experiencing something that might be unique to their business or to their approach, that's the point at which it becomes appropriate to move into more of a paid capacity, where we're doing some coaching or some consulting. And I imagine that's the case for you, too, Robyn, that you're able to show up in these groups and provide general knowledge. But once we get into something that is bespoke for an individual, we're moving past the point of being generous, and now we're moving into, let's explore what it might be like to work together. 

 

Robyn: Yeah, absolutely. 

 

Lee: So let me ask you, what are some areas that you most enjoy supporting your coaches, your people in as an online business manager, what do you love to do? 

 

Robyn: Oh, Lee with the good questions. What I think I enjoy most is helping coaches get organized, helping them bring their ideas to life. So whether that's a course they want to sell, a webinar that they want to put on, a lead magnet that they want to start. So just kind of bringing those ideas to life. And then I genuinely love the strategy/collaboration moments with most of my clients. I chat with them at least once a month, if not more. And I am just buzzing after those phone calls when we can really dig in and talk strategy and talk about the future of the business. So those definitely would be my top three. 

 

Lee: And what I love is that you are one of those unique people. I really feel like you're a bit of a unicorn, Robyn, because you are so strong at the strategic side of things. You can hold space for that big picture visioning, and you also know how to get shit done, how to translate that strategy into action, how to find the tactics that we need to take action on. And then you either implement or someone on your team implements with your oversight. So you are really able to switch back and forth between strategy and implementation. And that's something that I've certainly benefited from in my business. And I think it also gives you some flexibility and maybe a little more fun because you can wear multiple hats in your business. 

 

Robyn: Yeah, absolutely. And that's why I'm sticking with the title of Online Business Manager, because it needs to be vague, because what I do is fairly vague. I wear a lot of different hats day to day. So when it comes to that execution side, when it comes to implementation, I live for it. And I think it's one of the main things that holds most coaches back, probably most online business owners back, is they have the great ideas, they know who they want to serve, they know how they want to show up. But when it comes to that implementation piece, it's like a brick wall. All of a sudden, they're like, “Here's this great idea, here's this great thing, here I am. But how do I get that out to people? How do I show up in these spaces?” And so I love being able to help people figure that out. 

 

Lee: Excellent. Well, one of the questions I get a lot from coaches around hiring is how do they know if they're ready to hire someone. And I thought it might be interesting to get your take on that from the perspective of the person being hired. So what do you feel like coaches need to know or have in place if they are thinking about hiring someone for their business to provide the type of business support that you do? 

 

Robyn: Yeah, I would say that they should come prepared to any conversation with a service provider or a support person with a budget in mind and with a capacity in mind. So that's a capacity as far as how much involvement you want this person to have in your business, but also how much time you can invest in them to integrate them into your business. I'm sure there's some individuals out there that you can say, “Hey, I need X, Y and Z done, here's my passwords, log in, go for it,” and they can get it done. And sure, there are certain tasks that it's absolutely possible, but for the most part, if you're looking for all around general support, you're going to need to invest a bit of time with making some sort of training materials, jumping on a Zoom call with them, walking them through what your business looks like to integrate them. 

 

Lee: Yeah, and I think that's something that we were able to do pretty well from the beginning, in part because we were both really honest with each other. And I always felt like if there was something that was confusing or that wasn't working for you, you would tell me. And I felt like I hopefully did a good job of welcoming that and vice versa, that if I felt confused or if there was something that I thought maybe you would handle. But whatever the case might have been, I knew I could have that conversation with you. And so I would say for coaches who are looking to bring someone into their business for the long term, so to have that ongoing support, you really do need to consider this as a partnership. Because it is. And for me, I think that's why we have been able to work together so well for as long as we have now over, coming up on three years, I think, because we've really approached this as a partnership and we've respected each other. We've been really clear about the roles we each play in this business. And I think open communication has been a huge part of that. 

 

Robyn: Yeah. And a challenge to any online service providers that might be tuning in. That individual should also be coming to the table with an onboarding process of some sort. So when I start this partnership with someone, there is a full on onboarding process that they go through with me so that I know I have everything I need for their business in one central location. So it's definitely collaborative. Like both people need to kind of come into the partnership, ready to invest their time and their energy. 

 

Lee: Yes. And I think it's important to remember, too, that neither one of us are mind readers. Right? And I think sometimes unfairly coaches have the expectations that if they're hiring someone, they're going to come in and just know from the get go what needs to be done and how it needs to be done. And that's not always the case because every business is unique. So while you, Robyn, bring a very particular skill set into it and you are quick and adaptable and you know how to learn things and get it done quickly, there is still that learning process. And the same goes for me as a coach. So when I'm hiring someone, I try to, ahead of time, plan for that onboarding period and to give a good 90 days, I think, to see how things go before we're making any sort of decisions about, “Do we continue this, what needs to change?” Because I feel like it really does take a full quarter at least to bring someone on to get them acclimated and for them to feel like, “Okay, I've got this. I know what the routines are. I'm good to go.”

 

Robyn: Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I'm pretty flexible on that front. I've done two week trials with people. I've done one month trials with potential clients because, yeah, once again, I feel like both people are kind of interviewing for the job. That's always been my perspective. I think the beauty of the entrepreneurial space of having your own business is that you get to decide who enters your space. So if you come to the end of that period and the feeling is mutual yeah, keep it going. 

 

Lee: Yes, I think that's a lovely way of putting it. I mean, it really is a mutual interview, and both parties are trying to figure out if this is the right fit. And so I'm curious what you in particular look for when you are considering working with someone. Are there certain qualities or traits that you want to see in a coach or a CEO? 

 

Robyn: That is a great question. I think it primarily depends on what stage they are at in their business. So currently, my client list ranges from individuals that have been in business for themselves for over a decade to individuals that are just a couple of months in, very new, some would even say, like, at the exploring stage of, is this something that I want to stick with? Right. So I'm trying to think of, like, a red thread, but I think I really analyze it based on where that person is in their business. For the most part, when I come into kind of that initial call considering taking on a new client, and once again, I am absolutely spoiled by the fact that most of my clients come through word of mouth or referrals. So I also kind of have someone vouching for that individual before they're coming to me. But when I don't have that, which also happens, I'm honestly just kind of doing a bit of a vibe check. I want to know that we get along. I want to know that our communication styles are the same. I want to know how they like to receive feedback. I like to know what their availability is, how much time they're putting into their business, what kind of goals they have in place. For me, that can tell me a lot about the trajectory of our work together, regardless of how long someone has been in business. So in the same way that if I jump on a call with someone that just kicked off their LLC, but they have big goals in mind, big milestones. They know what they want to execute. That's going to be a totally different trajectory than maybe someone that's three or four years in but is like, “Yeah, I'm at a transition in my business. Things are going to be moving around a lot over these next couple of months while we're working together.” But I think it's just the honesty, the communication. And I get that that's also a bit goes both ways. In the same way that my business is my baby, I get that it's your baby too and it's hard to hand it over, it's hard to trust the babysitter. I totally get it. But I think that is where that kind of initial relationship, the partnership is so important. 

 

Lee: I would agree and I think that piece about the gut check is so important and you know, as someone who has listened to practically every episode of this show, just how important our intuition is as coaches, certainly when we are working with our clients, but also when we're working on our business. And I remember vividly that first conversation you and I had on Zoom when we were figuring out if we would be the right fit. And I also had that intuitive hit where it was like, “Yes, this is the person.” And in hindsight, I can look back and say, “Oh, it's because we have shared values, we have similar work ethic, we have similar goals.” In the moment, though, because we were just getting to know each other, I couldn't quite put my finger on why I felt so strongly about bringing you on board. I just knew I had to do it. So for me, this was another example of when my intuition really took the lead with my decision making process. And then it was as we worked together that I started seeing the evidences to why I felt that in the first place. So it is a balance between knowing what you're looking for, asking the right questions, being clear about your expectations, and also paying attention to your intuition, listening to your gut, whether your gut is saying “Yes, go forward!” or “red flag, don't progress,” it deserves to be honored as you're deciding whether to bring someone on board. 

 

Robyn: Yeah. And if things feel a bit sticky in your gut, if your intuition is kind of like, I'm not sure about this, that's where you can lean on something like a trial period, putting something like that into the agreement. Or talking about the fact that you want to see how you work together before you enter into any sort of, like, time or project commitment. If that's important to you, I would assume is important to the person you're speaking with. And they would be on board. Right? So just another way to kind of test the waters on how kind of transparent someone is willing to be and open and honest. 

 

Lee: I think that's a fantastic idea. So if, as the coach, you can carve out a particular project that you'd like support on, that's a great opportunity to test it out, and it's also an opportunity for the person you're hiring, your Robyn, to make sure that this is a good fit for them as well. So as long as everyone's on the same page as we enter into it, I think everyone benefits. And honestly, that's how I feel about our relationship in general, Robyn, I feel like everyone benefits. I certainly do. I think you do. I know the members of the Coach with Clarity Collective do as well, and my clients. I am just very grateful to have you as a pillar inside my business. I couldn't do it without you. And I'm really happy that you came on the show today. So thank you so much. I have a feeling there are going to be people out there who want to connect with you. Where is the best place for them to find you? 

 

Robyn: On my website. So, as much as I love to help clients with their digital footprint and their social media, I do none of it myself. But I do have a website. It's kismetvirtual.com. Of course we will put that in the show notes, and through there, you can schedule a call with me or email me and get a better feel for how I can support you. 

 

Lee: Yes. And I love that you were like, of course we'll put that in the show notes, because guess who puts it in the show notes? It would be Robyn. So she will absolutely make sure all of the correct information is in there. And trust me, whether you connect with Robyn directly or someone like her, bringing someone into your coaching business to support you can really help you grow and move to the next level. And it's so important to be clear about what it is you want from that person you bring into your business, what your expectations are of them and to be open to their expectations of you and the feedback that they can provide. Because I've learned so much about my own business from listening to Robyn and from taking her feedback under advisement. And I really feel like she's helped me become a better coach and a better business owner. So there's opportunities abound in this kind of relationship if we're open to them. So, Robyn, I just can't thank you enough. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you so much for being a part of Coach with Clarity. 

 

Robyn: Thank you. And ditto, my business would not be what it is today without your guidance and support. So, all the same, love right back to you. 

 

Lee: Oh, thanks, Robyn. Thanks for being on the show. 

 

Robyn: You're so welcome. 

 

Thank you so much to Robyn for being my guest on the Coach With Clarity podcast. And, of course, thanks to Robyn for all that she's doing post production for this episode and for the entire show and for the ways that she has strengthened, coached with Clarity, and helped me become a better coach and business owner. I realized that that conversation was a bit of a love fest between Robyn and me. But my hope is that it actually shows you what's possible when you are careful about hiring the right person for your business and when you are willing to turn over some of the responsibilities you've been holding to someone you trust. Because that's absolutely been the case for me with Robyn. I think one of the most significant takeaways from our conversation is how important it is for both people to approach the relationship with a sense of openness and curiosity and also with preparation. I think when we as coaches are clear about what it is we're looking for in terms of support, the specific tasks or roles that we would want someone to take on, and also how we can provide initial training and support and receive feedback from them that's really critical in helping someone make the most of their role inside your business. And so, hopefully, you picked up on some of that in my conversation with Robyn. Of course, if you have any questions at all about what it's like to work with someone in your business, how to hire, please feel free to send your questions my way. My email address is info@coachwithclarity.com. You can also find me on Instagram and on threads at coachwithclarity. But I'd love to know how this episode resonated with you. What questions came up? In fact, when we stopped recording, Robyn and I were already talking about the possibility of bringing her back on the show and doing a follow up episode to answer any specific questions you have about hiring, delegating and working with an online business manager. So if you've got questions, send them to info@coachwithclarity.com or find me at Coach with Clarity, because those questions may just be the foundation for a future episode with Robyn. All right, y'all, that's it for me this week. But don't worry. I will be back in your feed in two weeks with a brand new episode of the Coach with Clarity podcast. So be sure that you are subscribed to or following the show. That way, our next episode will automatically wind up in your feed so you'll always be up to speed as a Coach With Clarity. So until next time, my name is Lee Chaix McDonough, reminding you to get out there and show the world what it means to be a Coach with Clarity.