Lee: Well, hi there, Jodi, thank you so much for coming on the Coach with Clarity podcast today. 

Jodi: Oh, thank you for inviting me. I'm thrilled to be here, Lee. 

Lee: Well, you are one of my favorite people in the world, personally and professionally, and so when it comes to talking about writing a book, I knew there was no one else I wanted to have on the show.

Jodi: Oh, that is very kind of you. And likewise, you're one of my favorites as well. 

Lee: Oh, it's mutual admiration. So why don't we start off by introducing you to listeners who may not know you as well as I do, so if you would just tell us a little bit about who you are and the work that you do for the world? 

Jodi: Sure, I would be glad to. So I'm Jodi Brandon, I run a company called Jodi Brandon Editorial, and my background is in book publishing. That is all I've ever done. I was one of those weird children who knew what they wanted to do with their life from the age of five. I didn't know what it would look like, but I knew that I would be working with words and that's what I used to tell people. So I grew up, I studied writing in business in college, I moved to New York, because that's where all the publishers are, I realized it's very hard to make a living in New York on a publishing salary, and the most expensive place to live at that time in the country. So I started freelancing on the side, so I was always kind of doing the side hustle thing with extra editorial work and then I just sort of built that business up and started working with, you know, folks that I had worked with in the traditional publishing side in house from my day job, and, you know, doing more and more of that kind of work and realizing that I could kind of set the parameters of the timeline and the budget and all of those things, and not to mention choose which kinds of projects I worked on, which was fun. And then I met my husband, and we moved to the Philadelphia area, and there's no publishing here. So my side hustle became my full time hustle. And it just sort of grew and grew, and I started working with more and more entrepreneurs and business owners and bloggers and people like that, who wanted to publish a book, but didn't understand anything about the publishing industry, so they needed editorial support but they also needed, you know, maybe some writing, coaching, maybe some publishing coaching, and my business sort of evolved from there. And now I call myself a book publishing partner, because I still, I definitely still have the editorial services arm of my business, but most of my business these days is much more of the longer term, the book coaching, or people have joined my membership for sort of ongoing, you know, publishing support. So it's the best job in the world.

Lee: Well, and I love, I love that you're describing it as a partnership and having worked with you, I can attest that that's exactly what it feels like. That it's not someone that is telling me what to do, or someone that I'm delegating things to like, this really is a relationship of equals. And I always felt like you cared as much about my book as I did, and it really was a meeting of the minds when we worked together. So I think book publishing partner is such a wonderful way to describe the work that you do.

Jodi: Well, thank you, and I'm glad that it feels that way. That's how I want it to feel. You know what I mean? I feel like just because I have this insider book, publishing knowledge, that doesn't make me, you know, anything other than somebody that worked in the industry. You know what I mean? It's a very insular industry, and you know, it's people don't, unless you're a part of it, you don't understand what the heck is going on. So, yeah, and I share, share that with my clients.

Lee: Well, and I think that's a really interesting point because those of us who are not in that industry or who haven't been in that industry, we are overwhelmed by it, and then that allows us to feel really overwhelmed about writing a book, generally. 

Jodi: Yeah. 

Lee: And I have spoken to so many coaches who have that dream of writing a book, it's what they really want to do. It's how they want to show up in the world, but there's a lot of fear and overwhelm that get in the way. And I'm curious, from your perspective, what is the best first step and aspiring authors should take in the journey of bringing their book to life?

 

Jodi: The first step is always, I mean, you have to commit to it. I mean, that's, that's step number one. And that's, you know, obviously, internal work, but you've got to commit to it because, like you said, it's very foreign. It's not one of those projects in, in business where you can be like, “Oh, I'm gonna do x, and then two weeks later, it's done”, it's a long haul, as you know. So you, you have to really be committed to you know, doing it. And then from there, I mean, like, the tangible first step is I call it a book brain dump. I mean, it's like we do with anything else. Just get it out of your head onto paper, onto computer screen, and then you can kind of see, what do you have? And from there you can, I mean, from there you can write, from there you can test to see if this idea is viable, from there you see, “Do I have enough here to write a book?”, or is this at this point, maybe a white paper or a blog post series or something like that. But that's kind of the first step that kind of gives you a measurement of, you know, where you are, what you have, and then how you can make a plan to, you know, get the rest of the way.

Lee: I love that and I know, it seems like the most basic of ideas, and it is so transformational too. And, you know, we did that, I did that, when I was working on my book. And I find that actually, whenever I'm creating something, I need to start with that brain dump, or I call it a brain release. But I do it, I do it for this podcast, as well, you know, I’ll have a topic idea for a podcast episode. And I'll think to myself, “I don't know what I'm gonna say”, you know, and I get in my own way. And I get stuck until I just free write for 10 minutes, 15 minutes, and before I know it, I've created an outline for the episode. And that is a process that I really honed in working on my book. So this idea of just starting with a brain dump, I think is so powerful. Yes, for a book, but really for anything you want to create.

Jodi: Yeah, for anything. I just was working with a new client the other day, and it was her kickoff call, and so we were doing her brain dump. And she was very resistant to the idea because she felt like she already knew what she wanted the book to be. And I said, “Yeah, but we still need to, we still need to dig in and see exactly like what you think it's going to be”, and so she was very resistant and we did it, and she looked up when the timer went off. And she said, “holy bleep Jodi, that was such a magical exercise”.  Like, see?

Lee: You made a convert?

Jodi: Yeah, yep.

Lee: It's true, though, and I was one of those people, too, when you and I were working together on ACT on Your Business, I was really clear about what this book was going to be. I was taking the modality of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy and translating it for an entrepreneurial audience like, done, I don't need to do a brain release. But then the more we talked, it was like, oh, but what about structure? And what do I really want to talk about, and I needed that process in order to build the outline in order to write. Even if you think you know what, what you want to write about going into it, don't skip that part of the process, it really is foundational.

Jodi: It becomes, just like you said, it becomes the foundation, it becomes the working table of contents, it becomes outline, it becomes you know, the document that I mean, at least when you're book coaching with somebody that you use over and over and over again to make sure. Hey, are we on the right track? Hey, is this taking a little bit of a turn from what I originally thought it was? And do I want to take that turn? Or do I need to, you know, bring it back? So yeah, super important.

 

Lee: Yes. Okay, so now we've convinced everyone out there of the importance of starting with a brain dump. So let's say okay, they've done that, and they have these, kind of, ideas on the page of, “Oh, I'm starting to sense what my book might want to become”. What's next? What are some suggested strategies for actually going through the process of writing that first draft.

Jodi: So once you've got that, you know, I mean, I call it a working table of contents, because a lot of entrepreneurs don't like the word outline, but that's essentially what it is. And so what you want to do then is take that document, whatever you're calling it, and you kind of then go through the content that you have existing. So you go through that, and you've got the sections all nailed down, and you can kind of figure out, one, what order makes the most sense. And then two, what do I already have that I can use? So we'll start with what, you know, the first part there, what structure makes the most sense? And it really depends on what you're what you're teaching in your book, or what you're, you know, explaining in your book. Is it a process that has to follow a certain order? Maybe it is, maybe it's not. If so, that makes it a lot easier to structure your book, frankly, because, you know, you can't do step two before you do step one. So obviously, that comes first in the book. So then you just kind of feel it out and get things, you know, to an order that you think makes sense to start. And again, we're calling this a working document until as you know, Lee, until the end, until the end. So you never have to feel boxed into, “Oh, but I said that I was going to have this as chapter one”. No, who cares? Move it to chapter four. Like it's at this point in the process, let's not get caught up on that kind of stuff. And then the second piece of that to start is, you know, see what you already have because most business owners, bloggers, entrepreneurs, coaches, find that they've already written a lot of material that they can repurpose in some way. Now I'm not saying it's just a copy and paste job, you know, put this in here. But if you go through that list of, you know, themes on your working table of contents, sometimes you can find, you know, “oh, I wrote a blog post about that”, or, “oh, I was interviewed on a podcast about that, and I have the transcript”, and you end up finding that you have a lot of material that you can already work with. And that gives you a quick win because you're not starting from, you know, blank cursor on screen zero words, you have that immediate win and little momentum builder of, “Oh, I already have all of this. So how can I build on that, instead of starting from scratch?” and that makes it seem less daunting.

Lee: Let's talk about that a little more, because I know that a message I've told myself and something that I've heard from other coaches and entrepreneurs as well, is that, “but if I've already put it out there, isn't it cheating to like, copy it and use it again, in my book?”. I think we sometimes or I say we, maybe I, feel pressure for everything to be a brand new creation. 

Jodi: Yeah. 

Lee: And what you're saying is, nope, that does not have to be the case. And actually, I'm thinking there's probably some advantages to repurposing existing content in your book.

Jodi: Absolutely. First of all, no, you're not the only one who thinks that way. I would say I would say 390 of the 400 people I've worked with over the years have felt that way. No, it's not cheating. It's, it's your material, and again, I mean, if you're just going to copy and paste it, I mean, that's still not cheating. But that I mean, I would encourage you to, you know, freshen it up in some way, you know, maybe there's an example in there that you can pull out and add a new example, from a client that you worked with more recently, or some, you know, something like that. And a lot of times, things are taking a different shape. I worked with somebody recently who had a course textbook, and was writing a book sort of based off of that, the same, you know, basic tenets. And there were some sections that were, you know, a full module in the course, for example. So in the course, workbook, we're talking, you know, 15-20 pages, and that ended up being about three pages in the book of, you know, an extended bulleted list. So you're taking the material and tweaking it, because it's not the same audience necessarily, you know, when it was a course textbook, or when it was a blog post, or when it was, you know, a training that you gave it a summit, whatever the case may be. But yeah, you're I mean, you're just kind of, I mean, I use, I use the phrase “fresh up” all the time, because it makes it seem like, less daunting than, you know, going through like word by word, which is really what you're doing. Honestly, I mean, a lot of a lot of book coaching is just taking the book publishing terms out of it, to make it less scary for people, honestly, I find myself finding that out more and more every day as I work with entrepreneurs. But it really is just a matter of, you know, taking that, whatever that core material is, and making it work for the new audience, which is whoever you want to buy the book.

Lee: That is such a helpful reminder, and I think the other thing, too, that I remind myself is that people need to hear something more than once and in different ways, right? 

Jodi: Yeah.

Lee: You know, as I am gearing up to write my next book, next year, I am thinking about all of the content that I've created for this podcast, for my certification program, for my membership, and thinking about what wants to show up in the book, and understanding that there are people who need to read this as opposed to hear it, and that it really just augments everything that I've already put out there. So yeah, just reminding myself that this book is an additional resource, and I can kind of release the pressure of feeling like it has to be 100% brand new. I mean, of course, I want to bring some new ideas and new perspectives to it. But it needs to be anchored in my existing content, because my existing content is my brand, and it all needs to work harmoniously together. 

Jodi: Exactly. Yep. No, that's perfectly put.

Lee: Well, thank you, thank you. That makes me feel better, and I'm sure it makes a lot of people listening feel better, too. Alright, so we've talked a little bit about kind of creating that working table of contents, which, yes, by the way, will absolutely change in the writing process, because the writing process informs what the book wants to become, right? I mean, do you find that as you work with authors that things shift as they get into the actual process of writing?

Jodi: Oh, yes, absolutely. And it's, it's hard sometimes. Sometimes that is honestly one of the hardest parts for the people that I work with, because they are, they're a business owner in some capacity. And they're used to, they like typically, I don't want to generalize, but typically we like control, we like to be in charge. And then when we think, even though I continuously call it a working document, sometimes they've convinced themselves that this is how it's going to be when it's finished. And then we get into it, and things start to, you know, they start to evolve, they start to shift a little bit, and it's uncomfortable sometimes. And, you know, human nature, we don't like that, but especially as people who like and are used to being in control, we definitely don't like that. So there's, you know, there's resistance to changing and those are the people that have the hardest time honestly, finishing their books, because they keep wanting to put that circle into a square. 

Lee: Yeah. 

Jodi: Rather than saying like, “Okay, no, maybe this isn't what we thought it was going to be originally”, maybe, you know, maybe this isn't going to be an overview type of book, maybe this is going to be a deep dive into one piece of that overview. You know, so the book kind of takes a different form. And being able to, you know, to go with that is, is huge when book writing. 

Lee: Yes, and it is a practice, it's a skill to be able to meet your book where it is and to allow for that development. And I realized that this is gonna sound a little “woo woo”, but when I was working on my book, and there were parts of it, where I was starting to feel stuck, I really needed to connect with the soul of the book, with the energy of the book, and ask, “what do you need from me, what do you want to be?”, and much the way that working with you as a partnership, I had to view working on the book as a partnership with a book so that it became this kind of co-creative act between what I was creating and the thing itself. 

Jodi: Oh, I love that.

Lee: And then the minute I did that, it took away some of the anxiety about any sort of change that was happening in terms of what I thought was going to become because it just left space for the magic. And then I could kind of relax into it a little bit and understand that it didn't have to go according to plan at every step, and the more space I left for that creative process, the stronger the book became.

Jodi: Lee, that's so good. Seriously, though, no, because not everybody is able to get there. And that's I mean, and if you can see, I'm sure how if you can't get there, those are the people who never finished their book.

Lee: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, and that almost became me. I mean, that did, there was a point and I'm sure you remember, because I worked on my book from January to June, and in February, I just stopped working on it, and I wrote about it in the book. I got so wrapped around the axle around what I thought it should be versus what it wanted to be that it did almost paralyze me.

Jodi: Yeah. Yeah, and that's, I mean, that happens. And it, oh, my gosh, it's heartbreaking when that happens, and that sounds so melodramatic. I know, but it really is. Because I know that as a business owners, especially, you have a message to share, and you have people that, not everybody in the world can work with you one on one, not everybody in the world is going to, you know, join your membership or your group program or, or whatever. But I mean, the book, you can get it out there to reach, I mean, so many more people. And to let it you know, hamper you like that, and then just not do it. Oh, it breaks my heart when that happens. 

Lee: Yeah, yeah, I feel the same way. And so that's why – 

Jodi: But I understand it, I mean, I understand it. 

Lee: Yeah, yeah, I do, too, having lived through it, having worked with people who have felt creatively stuck, it, it is the shadow side, I think, of being a really innovative and idea oriented entrepreneur is then all of a sudden feeling like, “What do I do next? This feels so big, and this feels so scary, and I can't control it”, and really just surrendering to the process is often the best way through. 

Jodi: Mmhmm. 

Lee: But that requires some vulnerability and a willingness, willingness to let go of that control.

Jodi: It does, it does. But if you can do it, I mean, the other side is, you know, it's incredible. And the book might not end up being just what you thought it was going to be at the beginning, but that doesn't mean it's going to be you know, less than or not helpful, you know, or whatever, you just need to tweak your expectations at that point of what the book is going to be.

 

Lee: Yes, yes. 100%. And I will say that in my process of writing ACT on Your Business, that is where working with you as my developmental editor, and my book coach, was so helpful because you were able to kind of show up with me and be present and walk me through the process. And let me know that I wasn't alone in it, that this was normal, that we were going to get through it, and so that kind of leads me into a question I wanted to ask you about your process as an editor, because I know that there are different ways that you work with clients. Sometimes it is during the writing of the book, sometimes it's after the first draft. So I'd love to know a little bit more about what a book editor does and what an author should be looking for when they are looking to work with an editor.

Jodi: Okay, yeah, that's, that's a great question. 

Lee: And a big one.

Jodi: Most people, when they think of an editor, are thinking of a copy editor, which is the person who comes in, you know, like, seventh grade English with the red pen, you know, this is wrong, delete this, all of those things. And I, to this day, am made fun of by my brothers, because I loved seventh grade English, I love diagramming sentences, and which is probably what makes me a good copy editor to be honest. 

Lee: Absolutely. 

Jodi: But that's what most people are thinking of. So that's, I mean, copy editing is one phase and that's typically done…when a book comes to the copy editor, it's finished. Like, you've already written it, and the copy editor isn't looking for, you know, the big picture things like, “Hey, you know, you didn't really explain this concept and you say, the book is for a more advanced reader, or no, I'm sorry, for a beginner reader. So what about adding a section?”, you know, to, to explain the foundations of this concept, that kind of thing. A copy editor is not doing that kind of thing, a copy editor, she's really making sure, you know, it's grammar mechanics, it's the tone, it's clarity that your points are coming across, but they're not going to then work with you to fix it. That's, that's not their job. Whereas a developmental editor, which is a book coach, developmental editor, manuscript evaluator, you know, there's lots of different terminology, but that person is typically working with you more big picture, and they're working with you throughout the process. So they're, you know, I mean, that's where the partnership and the collaboration comes into play. So typically, someone when I'm working with them in that capacity, they're coming to me with an idea, they're coming to me with that initial brain dump, they're not that far into the process, where we can still kind of shape and mold the book into what we think it's going to be, set that plan, and then I mean, the beauty of it is, you know, if the plan goes off course, or if, you know, like, you really need to take a pause here, like writer's block, or, or, you know, not even something book related, but just something life related. Like, I know I said I was going to get this book draft done in three months but, you know, my significant other was diagnosed with an illness today, so you know, the book, then at that point is on the backburner. So just having someone with you to kind of, you know, then tweak the plan, like let's revise that plan and see what we need to do to move forward. It's just, it's a much more collaborative, and it's during the writing. Whereas copy editing typically comes after, and is a copy editing, there's no back and forth with the client, really, it's you know, they give you the manuscript, you work on it, you send it back. And I mean, some editor, I'm an editor that does multiple passes, so I'll go through it a few times but we're still not, you know, looking at the document together, you don't want to share the screen over a zoom call, like we are my coaching clients and my developmental clients.

Lee: So that's a really helpful distinction, then that the developmental editing process happens while you are developing the book, hence the name. 

Jodi: Yeah. 

Lee: And it's much broader, much more big picture really looking at kind of the overarching journey of the book, and then the copy editor comes in at the end to really refine it and to make sure that, you know, I's are dotted T's acrossed, literally and figuratively, and and that this book is ready to ship.

Jodi: Mm hmm. Okay.

 

Lee: Okay. So now that we have this book that's ready to ship. Where do we go next? And I think one of the questions that I'm sure you get asked a lot is whether someone should go the traditional publishing route or whether they should look to self publish, and especially for coaches, I'm curious kind of where you fall on that spectrum and what questions an author should be asking themselves when trying to figure out the best way to publish?

Jodi: That's, that's a great question. So I mean, just to take a quick step back, I mean, self publishing used to be, I call it the ugly stepsister. It used to be the ugly stepsister, nobody self published unless they couldn't get a traditional book deal, and then it was Plan B. It's definitely not like that anymore, particularly for coaches, entrepreneurs, business owners, because again, that control factor that we talked about before. One of the, I mean, there's pros and cons to every path to publication. I firmly believe that, I don't think that there's one right answer for everybody, but one of the cons of traditional publishing is that you lose some of that control, depending on the publisher, depending on your contract, which, let's face it, is written in their favor, not yours, because they're also a business. 

Lee: Yep. 

Jodi: So you, you know, sometimes you're not the one deciding on what the cover looks like, or, you know, they, they love the topic, but they want, they want the manuscript to kind of come from a different angle than you had planned. They can dictate some of that stuff, and that, business owners particularly, don't seem to care for. So there's that piece of it, but then there's also the timeline piece is something that everybody needs to consider. The time to market with traditional publishing is, it's very slow. I mean, you're looking at an average of probably, you know, 12 to 18 months from the time they accept a book proposal to the time you have a book. Whereas self publishing, I mean, you can do it in a year. I mean, you can do it in a few months. But I mean, it's more typically, you know, far less, I mean, it's much more closer to nine months, I would say more often, and that seems to be about average. But the, you know, the flip side of that is, with self publishing, you're in charge of everything, but you're in charge of everything. 

Lee: Right

Jodi: So you need to, you need to decide, you know, who do you need on your publishing team? Who do you want on your publishing team? What's your budget, and how does that factor in? Because you, maybe you do want to book coach, maybe you do want a copy editor, you maybe you do want to professional typesetter, designer versus, you know, a typesetter, off of, you know, Fiverr, or Readsy, you're one of those places, which have their place. My only caveat with those is, please make sure that this person has designed a book before. Graphic design and book design are two different skills. So you've got to figure out all of those pieces, and then you're in charge of kind of shepherding the book through to make sure that you know, when you say you're going to have a bound book for people to buy on Amazon or on your website, or wherever you're selling, that you in fact, do have a finished book to sell. So it's just, it's you know, there's more pieces to the puzzle with self publishing. But the trade off there is, you know, you're in charge, and you keep far more of the profit.

 

Lee: Yes, and I ultimately decided to go the self publishing route, well, in part because I'm a control freak, and I wanted to make all the decisions and have the final call but also because I did want to retain that control over my message and how I was putting the book out there and what I was talking about, and I really liked having that that freedom and that flexibility that I think you do give up a little bit when you go the more traditional publishing route. 

Jodi: Right. 

Lee: I think another misconception is that people who go the traditional publishing route don't have to worry about marketing, because they think the publisher is going to do that for them. And in fact, that's not always the case. In fact, I'd say that's rarely the case, and even if you go the traditional route, you're still going to be doing a lot of that book marketing. Have you found that to be the case?

Jodi: Yeah, I would take it even a step further Lee and say, that's almost never the case now. I mean, 20 years ago, that was absolutely the case, even mid-market authors, not even just like the big celebrities, got a book tour, got a publicity budget. I mean, that's just, it's just not the case anymore. So unless you are one of those big names. No, the budget is not there for marketing and publicity, you're going to get, you know, a couple blurbs here and there, but anything more you're responsible for, for bringing to the table. And honestly, that's one of the things that traditional publishers are looking for these days. It's yes, you need to write a great book, but they also want to know what kind of platform you're bringing to the table and what your marketing plan is to supplement their own. So, and that makes sense if you step back and look at it from their perspective, because they're looking for commercial success. 

Lee: Mmhmm

Jodi: Whereas an entrepreneur, a business owner, a coach, a blogger writing a book to serve their business, you're not necessarily interested in commercial success. Success to you might not have anything to do with book sales.

 

Lee: Right, right, and we're going to be talking about that on the podcast actually, about how you can use a book to leverage other opportunities in your business. So I think that's a really important point, but at the same time, we do need to be marketing, and we need to be marketing our book. And I'd love to kind of wrap up our interview today talking a little bit about what that looks like for author entrepreneurs and what some of the better strategies are to consider when we're trying to let the world know, “Hey, I have this book. You should read it.”

Jodi: Yeah. So I mean, it's I tell people all the time, it's funny because it's, it's similar to everything else we need to be promoting and marketing in our business. But it's also so different at the same time, which and so it's like this weird thing. But I mean, the ways that it's like everything else are, you need to be talking about it, you need, I mean, people don't know you're working on it, take them along on the journey, try to find places along, you know, the writing process where you can bring them in. Because when people are involved, they're much more likely to, you know, buy something, talk about it, share it with other people. So finding ways whether it's, you know, you know, announcing that you're writing a book, when you've got a cover design, do that cover reveal, you know, and these are all, you know, earlier in the process, so you need to start way sooner than you think that you do, also. Which is not always the case for some of the other things that we launched in a market and our business is, you know, there's a, there's a much longer launch runway, as Amy Porterfield would call it, with a book, which works out nicely, because it's a longer process like we said earlier. And then the way that it's different, and can tire people out, especially some people who, people who love to write often are introverts, and the people who like that part of the process, like the, you know, holding themselves up with a laptop somewhere, they don't like the marketing part of it as much. So you've really have to, you know, just kind of work with your strengths. Maybe a blog post is more comfortable for you than a video, but you've got to promote the book in some way, and then the book is out there, it doesn't, you know, there's no cart close with a book like there is with a course or a group program or something like that. So that's both, you know, exhilarating and terrifying. Again, at the same time, I think sometimes, for author entrepreneurs, because it's, you know, it's hard to set expectations when the product, when something's ,going to be out there forever. So you just kind of have to play the long game, I'm sure you want to do a big push, when the book first comes out, you know, get some word of mouth, get some momentum going, you know, that kind of thing. And you set up a, you know, a launch team of ambassadors and cheerleaders who can help you with that. And that's, you know, there's the usual thing is to make that an exciting time, less so right now, when we can't do anything, you know, indoors or in groups or anything like that, when you're doing a lot more virtual things, a lot more virtual things. But then, you know, you just make a concerted effort to, you know, let people know, ongoing, the book is out there, put it in your email signature, you know. Every once in a while, once a quarter, once every couple of months, do some kind of push to let people know, “Hey, the book is still out there. It's still available”. I know, for a long time, Lee, I don't know if you still do, but you had the book, you know, not in a like, “Oh my gosh, she's trying to sell the book”, kind of way, but you had your book positioned so it was behind you on video calls.

Lee: Yes. 

Jodi: Yeah. Which is brilliant because whether it comes up in conversation or not, people see it. And if they were talking to you for, you know, 15, 20, 30 minutes, it probably they were like, “I wonder what that book was”. So even if it doesn't come up, maybe it's gonna trigger something for them later, and they'll look it up. So I mean, little things, like subtle things like that, like the email signature, are huge. And you know, and again, a lot of times, I can't say this often enough, a lot of times your goal is not, you know, to sell a million copies. When you're a coach, business owner, entrepreneur, writing a book, your goal is to get fewer copies sold, but to the right people.

Lee: Mm hmm.

Jodi: So that's, I mean, and that kind of that will all dovetail when you're creating that marketing plan, as you know, find the intersection of who that audience is your primary audience, who your secondary audiences are, where they hang out, and what makes the most sense to reach them. And you know, I mean, you as the author, you know that because they're your people.

Lee: Yes. Wow, Oh, my gosh, so I just want to break this down, because there's just in the last few minutes, we have covered so much, but what I, what really stood out for me was number one, marketing begins before the book is done, it actually begins as you are writing the book, and letting your reader into that process is a way of building that connection, and that's really all marketing is about is making connections and building relationships. So if you can do that, as you're writing the book, you are going to set yourself up for success when it comes time for the big launch, which is huge and lots of fun, and there's big things we can do about that. But also for the smaller, more nuanced, more long term strategies. Those just enhance and reinforce the relationship as well and so it also just kind of comes together. And so, yeah, it just, it feels like such a, it comes full circle, like it's a really comprehensive process.

Jodi: Yeah. 

Lee: Oh, wow. Okay, so in our interview today, Jodi, we have talked about writing a book, we have talked about publishing a book, and we've talked about marketing a book, which is so perfect, because that just happens to be basically the name of your book, right? Publish Market, kind of by design. I'm just so grateful for your generosity of knowledge and spirit and for coming on the show today. Thank you for walking us through what it looks like to write a book. I'm so grateful.

Jodi: Oh, my gosh, it was my pleasure. This was a fun conversation.

Lee: It really was, and I know that a lot of the listeners are going to want to have their own conversations with you. So where is the best place for them to connect with you?

 

Jodi: My website, everything that's sort of the hub. From the website, you can see, you know, what services and processes are all broken down there. There's a link there to schedule a brainstorm session with me, which is my version of a free discovery call. Yeah, everything, everything stems from the website.

Lee: Excellent. And that website is?

Jodi: www.JodiBrandonEditorial.com

Lee: Excellent. We will make sure that is in the show notes, and believe me, that website, there's so much value there between the blog posts, you have your own podcast. There's information about how to work with Jodi as well as her membership. So definitely head to JodiBrandonEditorial.com, Jodi, thank you again for coming on the show today.

Jodi: Thanks for having me, Lee.

 

 

Again, many thanks to Jodi for coming on the show, I hope you found that interview to be valuable and supportive as you consider writing your book, as you take those first steps towards bringing your book out into the world. Or if you've already written a book, maybe you've got some additional ideas on how to leverage it in your business. And that is exactly what we are going to be talking about on the next episode of the Coach with Clarity podcast, I am going to be going even deeper into the ways I have been able to use my book, ACT on Your Business, to build my coaching practice. And as you may have heard, in that interview, I will be working on my second book next year, I have blocked out the second quarter of 2021 to work on my book, no title yet, I will definitely keep you posted, and it is going to be a deeper dive into how to be a powerful coach. So, I am very excited to see what I create next year and I will definitely take you all along for the ride, but in the meantime, make sure that you have subscribed to the Coach with Clarity podcast, because next week, I will be talking even more about how you can leverage your book to build your coaching practice. It's definitely an episode you are going to want to tune into if you're thinking about writing a book, or if you already have one and you're looking for new ways to help it grow and expand the work that you do. As always, I am so grateful to you for tuning in every week and listening to the show, and I would love to hear what you think of it. So the best way to connect with me is over on Instagram. You can find me there @CoachwithClarity. Feel free to give me a follow and certainly send me a DM – let me know what you think of the show, what you're working on in your coaching practice, and if there's anything you'd like to hear more about in a future episode. So head on over to Instagram at @CoachwithClarity and I look forward to connecting with you over there. All right, my friend. I hope you have a wonderful week and until next time, my name is Lee Chaix McDonough, reminding you to get out there and show the world what it means to be a Coach with Clarity.